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Post by amg1977 on Sept 4, 2019 11:35:56 GMT -5
I'm going to give some opinions on some of the girls we have been discussing on this thread and its predecessor in terms of the likelihood of them having successful careers as popular music singers. I am not concerning myself with the likelihood of their succeeding in other genres (Classical, CC, Jazz) that may be part of their past except in passing to explain their current situation. I will begin, of course, with Jackie. Jackie Evancho's early success and stardom may have done a great disservice to her long term prospects. Given that the family faced financial ruin when Jackie first broke out on AGT and her parents have lived off her earnings since, decisions were always made in a short-sighted manner that favored immediate returns rather than long term viability. Hence, she was always fed the company line that classical and CC was her bread and butter and her voice was not suitable for popular music. Thus, at the young age when most talented vocalists would be encouraged to dabble in different styles and get a greater feel for music in general, Jackie was pigeonholed into a particular genre where her considerable vocal talents were locked into imitative rather than creative uses of her voice. She became the Evancho family's goose with the golden voice who was directed at a young age to give her adoring audience of red state Americans and creepy old men exactly what they wanted to hear: by-the-book renditions of the standard CC repertoire sung in a stunningly pure voice by an adorable little girl. It might be aesthetically pleasing, but it was highly derivative of others and Jackie did nothing to develop her own unique style to showcase her exceptional voice. As time moved on, the "little girl" grew up and the act started to pay less dividends. Album sales were progressively worse, fans dropped by the wayside, and the public just stopped paying attention. Perhaps sensing Jackie had an expiration date, there seemed to be an attempt to parlay the sexually confused Jacob/Juliet into reality TV stardom on what remained of Jackie's coattails with the reality show Growing Up Evancho. That turned out to be a disaster as the show was never picked up by Lifetime and the Evanchos' pushing transgender rights alienated a large swath of Jackie's remaining audience. Whatever she may have gained on the left was lost by singing at Trump's inauguration and whatever she may have gained back by that was lost in the subsequent condemnation of Trump's gay rights and transgender rights positions. You can't make up the incompetence demonstrated by Team Evancho both in Jackie's public image and in her perceived dealings with fans.
During this same post-AGT period, Jackie was obviously growing frustrated with the material she was allowed to sing and how she was directed to sing it. At one point she did an ad for tween clothing outlet Justice where she sang a pop song "Go Time" and had an accompanying video that was a revelation. For the first time in a few years, Jackie seemed to be enjoying herself and actually looked like a normal kid. When you are a kid singer, you like singing anything that gets approval. When you reach your early teens, you want to sing the sort of music popular with kids your age. "Go Time" sounded like it came right out of the Radio Disney playlist and Jackie obviously had a blast with it.
Given her falling returns in CC, this would have been the right time to approach Disney or Nickelodeon about the possibility of working with Jackie to develop a vehicle on their channel to make Jackie a pop star. Sure, Jackie was unknown to the Disney/Nick kids audience but so were Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and Ariana Grande and Jackie has proven talent. She could have been getting paid for a TV show, had her social media presence managed by the pros, been trained in stagecraft, and not had to worry about touring until her transformation was complete. But short-sighted people make short-term decisions and instead we got the pop/CC hybrids that lost a chunk of what remained of her following and gained no one. So does she now have a shot at popular music success? Someone with her vocal talent cannot be written off completely, but it would take a lot of hard work and she would have to resign herself to toiling for a number of years in obscurity. She may be doing that anyway, so she might as well be productive with it. If I were her, I would move towards becoming a younger, updated singer of the Celine Dion type. She should start recording some videos of her singing appropriate covers that show off her voice and posting them to YouTube. She could also post an except to her Instagram with a link to the YouTube vid. She already seems to have upgraded the content of her Instagram in the past few weeks. What usually happens then is someone will search for a song they like and see the original along with some covers and will check out covers they have not seen before. This is how a lot of pop stars from YouTube (including Justin Bieber) got their big break. Once you get a following, you can then release an updated arrangement of a song from an earlier era (60s-90s) as a digital download single (you don't need the expense of recording an album) with an accompanying video (somewhat low budget). If your audience grows, you can either try your hand at songwriting or seek out a good young songwriter. Given Jackie's background, the latter would be the preferred route.
In terms of her voice, I would give Jackie an A for vocal quality but a C or D for vocal intangibles. A few people have brought up the Piers Morgan quote in regards to Jackie that "anyone can sing a pop song" but this is sheer snobbery - especially since Jackie hasn't proven that SHE can sing a pop song. She can hit the notes but her inflections and use of her vocal power to display emotion often seem stilted. Certain elements can be taught but eventually she must "feel the music" and use her vocal abilities expressively. Jackie could do that with simple happy tween pop songs like "Go Time" but it is difficult to express adult emotions when you have lived a sheltered existence designed to keep you in a child like state. This also affects her onstage persona since she has lived her whole career as a parrot who sings on command rather than a unique musical force whose individuality comes through in her singing. There is also the matter of her work ethic. She does not appear to be self-driven and her parents have not provided good role models for hard work. The lax schedule she has the nerve to call a tour bears this out.
While the quality of her voice makes it impossible to write her off, the missteps in her career and the hard work needed - a quality Jackie has never demonstrated - makes reviving her career a difficult task. Not impossible - but taking steps that Jackie has not proven she is willing to execute.
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 4, 2019 14:21:04 GMT -5
Grace put on another great show last night in Denver and unveiled yet another new song. This one is titled "Poser":
That gives us "Stray," "Ur So Beautiful," "Waste My Time," "You'll Get Bored," "Don't Like You," "The City," and "Poser" as possible tracks on her forthcoming as yet untitled release. There are also a few fragments of songs she has leaked on Instagram. And that's just the stuff we know about... she seems to be a busy girl these days.
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Post by BOGC on Sept 4, 2019 14:32:45 GMT -5
Even presuming some validity in that post, I see the presumption that all classical, CC, pretty much everything except new material in a popular genre, is somehow not creative. It may not be newly written, but it doesn't need to be a cover that simply channels the original (although that's not a bad place to start learning; you can't do new until you can first do as-is with such accuracy as you intend, and when you do something different, _understand_ why you do that).
Pop is poop, mostly. Some isn't, but that can't be blamed on the size of the audience, which might accidentally let something through its screen of standardized, dynamically compressed, auto-tuned and otherwise eviscerated cr@p.
OTOH, 95% of highly original and experimental avant-garde stuff is also poop. All much of it can do is manipulate you by being difficult just for the sake of being difficult, or by causing pain with the emphasis on dissonance. A female conductor (of mostly classical content - one that had conducted Jackie once or twice, which is why I was following her) recently had posted something looking for material by recent female composers. I googled a little, and most were so experimental or exotic that I couldn't possibly recommend them. You need some recognizable happy, sad, angry, dramatic, or some such (but not just one of those), or you lose the audience. I found it very difficult to recognize any of those in the examples I found. Experimental or sophisticated is fine to play with but ultimately all music and art is _communication_; if it's nearly inaccessible in that regard, it's not effective - even if some of that may explore in directions that others might later make effective.
Somewhere between least-common-denominator and too highbrow for anyone, is a balance of being predictable enough to be comprehensible, without being totally repetitive and derivative.
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Post by Disappointed on Sept 4, 2019 14:48:42 GMT -5
I'm going to give some opinions on some of the girls we have been discussing on this thread and its predecessor in terms of the likelihood of them having successful careers as popular music singers. I am not concerning myself with the likelihood of their succeeding in other genres (Classical, CC, Jazz) that may be part of their past except in passing to explain their current situation. I will begin, of course, with Jackie. Jackie Evancho's early success and stardom may have done a great disservice to her long term prospects. Given that the family faced financial ruin when Jackie first broke out on AGT and her parents have lived off her earnings since, decisions were always made in a short-sighted manner that favored immediate returns rather than long term viability. Hence, she was always fed the company line that classical and CC was her bread and butter and her voice was not suitable for popular music. Thus, at the young age when most talented vocalists would be encouraged to dabble in different styles and get a greater feel for music in general, Jackie was pigeonholed into a particular genre where her considerable vocal talents were locked into imitative rather than creative uses of her voice. She became the Evancho family's goose with the golden voice who was directed at a young age to give her adoring audience of red state Americans and creepy old men exactly what they wanted to hear: by-the-book renditions of the standard CC repertoire sung in a stunningly pure voice by an adorable little girl. It might be aesthetically pleasing, but it was highly derivative of others and Jackie did nothing to develop her own unique style to showcase her exceptional voice. As time moved on, the "little girl" grew up and the act started to pay less dividends. Album sales were progressively worse, fans dropped by the wayside, and the public just stopped paying attention. Perhaps sensing Jackie had an expiration date, there seemed to be an attempt to parlay the sexually confused Jacob/Juliet into reality TV stardom on what remained of Jackie's coattails with the reality show Growing Up Evancho. That turned out to be a disaster as the show was never picked up by Lifetime and the Evanchos' pushing transgender rights alienated a large swath of Jackie's remaining audience. Whatever she may have gained on the left was lost by singing at Trump's inauguration and whatever she may have gained back by that was lost in the subsequent condemnation of Trump's gay rights and transgender rights positions. You can't make up the incompetence demonstrated by Team Evancho both in Jackie's public image and in her perceived dealings with fans.
During this same post-AGT period, Jackie was obviously growing frustrated with the material she was allowed to sing and how she was directed to sing it. At one point she did an ad for tween clothing outlet Justice where she sang a pop song "Go Time" and had an accompanying video that was a revelation. For the first time in a few years, Jackie seemed to be enjoying herself and actually looked like a normal kid. When you are a kid singer, you like singing anything that gets approval. When you reach your early teens, you want to sing the sort of music popular with kids your age. "Go Time" sounded like it came right out of the Radio Disney playlist and Jackie obviously had a blast with it.
Given her falling returns in CC, this would have been the right time to approach Disney or Nickelodeon about the possibility of working with Jackie to develop a vehicle on their channel to make Jackie a pop star. Sure, Jackie was unknown to the Disney/Nick kids audience but so were Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and Ariana Grande and Jackie has proven talent. She could have been getting paid for a TV show, had her social media presence managed by the pros, been trained in stagecraft, and not had to worry about touring until her transformation was complete. But short-sighted people make short-term decisions and instead we got the pop/CC hybrids that lost a chunk of what remained of her following and gained no one. So does she now have a shot at popular music success? Someone with her vocal talent cannot be written off completely, but it would take a lot of hard work and she would have to resign herself to toiling for a number of years in obscurity. She may be doing that anyway, so she might as well be productive with it. If I were her, I would move towards becoming a younger, updated singer of the Celine Dion type. She should start recording some videos of her singing appropriate covers that show off her voice and posting them to YouTube. She could also post an except to her Instagram with a link to the YouTube vid. She already seems to have upgraded the content of her Instagram in the past few weeks. What usually happens then is someone will search for a song they like and see the original along with some covers and will check out covers they have not seen before. This is how a lot of pop stars from YouTube (including Justin Bieber) got their big break. Once you get a following, you can then release an updated arrangement of a song from an earlier era (60s-90s) as a digital download single (you don't need the expense of recording an album) with an accompanying video (somewhat low budget). If your audience grows, you can either try your hand at songwriting or seek out a good young songwriter. Given Jackie's background, the latter would be the preferred route.
In terms of her voice, I would give Jackie an A for vocal quality but a C or D for vocal intangibles. A few people have brought up the Piers Morgan quote in regards to Jackie that "anyone can sing a pop song" but this is sheer snobbery - especially since Jackie hasn't proven that SHE can sing a pop song. She can hit the notes but her inflections and use of her vocal power to display emotion often seem stilted. Certain elements can be taught but eventually she must "feel the music" and use her vocal abilities expressively. Jackie could do that with simple happy tween pop songs like "Go Time" but it is difficult to express adult emotions when you have lived a sheltered existence designed to keep you in a child like state. This also affects her onstage persona since she has lived her whole career as a parrot who sings on command rather than a unique musical force whose individuality comes through in her singing. There is also the matter of her work ethic. She does not appear to be self-driven and her parents have not provided good role models for hard work. The lax schedule she has the nerve to call a tour bears this out.
While the quality of her voice makes it impossible to write her off, the missteps in her career and the hard work needed - a quality Jackie has never demonstrated - makes reviving her career a difficult task. Not impossible - but taking steps that Jackie has not proven she is willing to execute.
I don't think she ever had any long term prospects, she was just in the right place at the right time and had been taught to mimic an opera voice at a young age. But she had also been taught that hard work was something to avoid and coasting through life laying by the pool was the ultimate goal, that's what the disservice was. I do agree that she was used as a ticket to that lifestyle by the rest of the family. But I honestly don't think she would have amounted to anything if not for that "right place, right time" AGT lotto win. Given her falling returns in CC, this would have been the right time to approach Disney or Nickelodeon about the possibility of working with Jackie to develop a vehicle on their channel to make Jackie a pop star. Sure, Jackie was unknown to the Disney/Nick kids audience but so were Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and Ariana Grande and Jackie has proven talent.No way this would have had any chance. Those other young stars were likeable and appealed to their peers. Jackie has never appealed to her peers, even at the peak of her AGT lotto win. Jackie has no personality or sincerity and she doesn't have any other talent other than the opera mimicking at age 10, which she has lost long ago except for a few songs she has sung many times. She sounds like a bad karaoke singer now on any new songs, can't dance and can't play an instrument, and can't even talk to anyone on her own without daddy being a few feet away. So does she now have a shot at popular music success?
No chance whatsoever. She is a known entity, so the "discovery" by the public is out. The majority of the public doesn't like her at all, only a very small cult like following of her former fan base supports her as well as a small segment of the gay community that didn't get overly offended by the Trump performance. The only reason she is getting the concerts she gets is due to her name recognition from AGT, that's it. Will it continue forever? Maybe, but not likely. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 4, 2019 15:11:41 GMT -5
Given her falling returns in CC, this would have been the right time to approach Disney or Nickelodeon about the possibility of working with Jackie to develop a vehicle on their channel to make Jackie a pop star. Sure, Jackie was unknown to the Disney/Nick kids audience but so were Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and Ariana Grande and Jackie has proven talent.No way this would have had any chance. Those other young stars were likeable and appealed to their peers. Jackie has never appealed to her peers, even at the peak of her AGT lotto win. Jackie has no personality or sincerity and she doesn't have any other talent other than the opera mimicking at age 10, which she has lost long ago except for a few songs she has sung many times. She sounds like a bad karaoke singer now on any new songs, can't dance and can't play an instrument, and can't even talk to anyone on her own without daddy being a few feet away. Here I was speaking of 2014 - not today. There was a lull in the teen star sweepstakes after the big stars of the previous era (Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, Victoria Justice, Ariana Grande) had moved on to other more mature (or, in Miley's case, skankier) things. The Ziegler girls had just left dance moms or were about to do so. Grace was some unknown kid who just started posting videos of covers on YuuTube. Both Disney and Nickelodeon were looking for the next teen star and the "Go Time" sort of thing is exactly what they were looking for in their next star. Sure, Jackie has the personality of a dead fish, but these networks are good at recasting people in their own image. They give them classes on how to behave and a script to follow on what to say. Nothing is ever left to chance. Miley Cyrus was trailer trash all her life and Rowan Blanchard was likely a lesbian feminist from the time she hit puberty, but Disney had people convinced both were innocent paradigms of All-Amnerican little girl virtues. Never underestimate the power of the mouse. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 4, 2019 15:26:18 GMT -5
Even presuming some validity in that post, I see the presumption that all classical, CC, pretty much everything except new material in a popular genre, is somehow not creative. It may not be newly written, but it doesn't need to be a cover that simply channels the original (although that's not a bad place to start learning; you can't do new until you can first do as-is with such accuracy as you intend, and when you do something different, _understand_ why you do that). Pop is poop, mostly. Some isn't, but that can't be blamed on the size of the audience, which might accidentally let something through its screen of standardized, dynamically compressed, auto-tuned and otherwise eviscerated cr@p. OTOH, 95% of highly original and experimental avant-garde stuff is also poop. All much of it can do is manipulate you by being difficult just for the sake of being difficult, or by causing pain with the emphasis on dissonance. A female conductor (of mostly classical content - one that had conducted Jackie once or twice, which is why I was following her) recently had posted something looking for material by recent female composers. I googled a little, and most were so experimental or exotic that I couldn't possibly recommend them. You need some recognizable happy, sad, angry, dramatic, or some such (but not just one of those), or you lose the audience. I found it very difficult to recognize any of those in the examples I found. Experimental or sophisticated is fine to play with but ultimately all music and art is _communication_; if it's nearly inaccessible in that regard, it's not effective - even if some of that may explore in directions that others might later make effective. Somewhere between least-common-denominator and too highbrow for anyone, is a balance of being predictable enough to be comprehensible, without being totally repetitive and derivative. I did not say classical or CC could never be creative. I just said Jackie wasn't creative and, at ten years old in a genre where there are definite rules to follow, how could she be? This does not mean she wasn't good - she was excellent in what she did. However, what she did was derivative of other performances of the same material - as it should have been for someone her age. Not being creative does not imply a lower quality performance and being creative does not imply a higher quality performance. Pop singer Fergie's recent rendition of the Star Bangled Banner at some sporting event was creative to the point of better being labeled the Star Mangled Banner. You can be creative and still stink. |
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Post by Beachguy on Sept 4, 2019 17:03:17 GMT -5
I'm going to give some opinions on some of the girls we have been discussing on this thread and its predecessor in terms of the likelihood of them having successful careers as popular music singers. I am not concerning myself with the likelihood of their succeeding in other genres (Classical, CC, Jazz) that may be part of their past except in passing to explain their current situation. I will begin, of course, with Jackie. Jackie Evancho's early success and stardom may have done a great disservice to her long term prospects. Given that the family faced financial ruin when Jackie first broke out on AGT and her parents have lived off her earnings since, decisions were always made in a short-sighted manner that favored immediate returns rather than long term viability. Hence, she was always fed the company line that classical and CC was her bread and butter and her voice was not suitable for popular music. Thus, at the young age when most talented vocalists would be encouraged to dabble in different styles and get a greater feel for music in general, Jackie was pigeonholed into a particular genre where her considerable vocal talents were locked into imitative rather than creative uses of her voice. She became the Evancho family's goose with the golden voice who was directed at a young age to give her adoring audience of red state Americans and creepy old men exactly what they wanted to hear: by-the-book renditions of the standard CC repertoire sung in a stunningly pure voice by an adorable little girl. It might be aesthetically pleasing, but it was highly derivative of others and Jackie did nothing to develop her own unique style to showcase her exceptional voice. As time moved on, the "little girl" grew up and the act started to pay less dividends. Album sales were progressively worse, fans dropped by the wayside, and the public just stopped paying attention. Perhaps sensing Jackie had an expiration date, there seemed to be an attempt to parlay the sexually confused Jacob/Juliet into reality TV stardom on what remained of Jackie's coattails with the reality show Growing Up Evancho. That turned out to be a disaster as the show was never picked up by Lifetime and the Evanchos' pushing transgender rights alienated a large swath of Jackie's remaining audience. Whatever she may have gained on the left was lost by singing at Trump's inauguration and whatever she may have gained back by that was lost in the subsequent condemnation of Trump's gay rights and transgender rights positions. You can't make up the incompetence demonstrated by Team Evancho both in Jackie's public image and in her perceived dealings with fans.
During this same post-AGT period, Jackie was obviously growing frustrated with the material she was allowed to sing and how she was directed to sing it. At one point she did an ad for tween clothing outlet Justice where she sang a pop song "Go Time" and had an accompanying video that was a revelation. For the first time in a few years, Jackie seemed to be enjoying herself and actually looked like a normal kid. When you are a kid singer, you like singing anything that gets approval. When you reach your early teens, you want to sing the sort of music popular with kids your age. "Go Time" sounded like it came right out of the Radio Disney playlist and Jackie obviously had a blast with it.
Given her falling returns in CC, this would have been the right time to approach Disney or Nickelodeon about the possibility of working with Jackie to develop a vehicle on their channel to make Jackie a pop star. Sure, Jackie was unknown to the Disney/Nick kids audience but so were Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and Ariana Grande and Jackie has proven talent. She could have been getting paid for a TV show, had her social media presence managed by the pros, been trained in stagecraft, and not had to worry about touring until her transformation was complete. But short-sighted people make short-term decisions and instead we got the pop/CC hybrids that lost a chunk of what remained of her following and gained no one. So does she now have a shot at popular music success? Someone with her vocal talent cannot be written off completely, but it would take a lot of hard work and she would have to resign herself to toiling for a number of years in obscurity. She may be doing that anyway, so she might as well be productive with it. If I were her, I would move towards becoming a younger, updated singer of the Celine Dion type. She should start recording some videos of her singing appropriate covers that show off her voice and posting them to YouTube. She could also post an except to her Instagram with a link to the YouTube vid. She already seems to have upgraded the content of her Instagram in the past few weeks. What usually happens then is someone will search for a song they like and see the original along with some covers and will check out covers they have not seen before. This is how a lot of pop stars from YouTube (including Justin Bieber) got their big break. Once you get a following, you can then release an updated arrangement of a song from an earlier era (60s-90s) as a digital download single (you don't need the expense of recording an album) with an accompanying video (somewhat low budget). If your audience grows, you can either try your hand at songwriting or seek out a good young songwriter. Given Jackie's background, the latter would be the preferred route.
In terms of her voice, I would give Jackie an A for vocal quality but a C or D for vocal intangibles. A few people have brought up the Piers Morgan quote in regards to Jackie that "anyone can sing a pop song" but this is sheer snobbery - especially since Jackie hasn't proven that SHE can sing a pop song. She can hit the notes but her inflections and use of her vocal power to display emotion often seem stilted. Certain elements can be taught but eventually she must "feel the music" and use her vocal abilities expressively. Jackie could do that with simple happy tween pop songs like "Go Time" but it is difficult to express adult emotions when you have lived a sheltered existence designed to keep you in a child like state. This also affects her onstage persona since she has lived her whole career as a parrot who sings on command rather than a unique musical force whose individuality comes through in her singing. There is also the matter of her work ethic. She does not appear to be self-driven and her parents have not provided good role models for hard work. The lax schedule she has the nerve to call a tour bears this out.
While the quality of her voice makes it impossible to write her off, the missteps in her career and the hard work needed - a quality Jackie has never demonstrated - makes reviving her career a difficult task. Not impossible - but taking steps that Jackie has not proven she is willing to execute.
I don't think she ever had any long term prospects, she was just in the right place at the right time and had been taught to mimic an opera voice at a young age. But she had also been taught that hard work was something to avoid and coasting through life laying by the pool was the ultimate goal, that's what the disservice was. I do agree that she was used as a ticket to that lifestyle by the rest of the family. But I honestly don't think she would have amounted to anything if not for that "right place, right time" AGT lotto win. Given her falling returns in CC, this would have been the right time to approach Disney or Nickelodeon about the possibility of working with Jackie to develop a vehicle on their channel to make Jackie a pop star. Sure, Jackie was unknown to the Disney/Nick kids audience but so were Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, and Ariana Grande and Jackie has proven talent.No way this would have had any chance. Those other young stars were likeable and appealed to their peers. Jackie has never appealed to her peers, even at the peak of her AGT lotto win. Jackie has no personality or sincerity and she doesn't have any other talent other than the opera mimicking at age 10, which she has lost long ago except for a few songs she has sung many times. She sounds like a bad karaoke singer now on any new songs, can't dance and can't play an instrument, and can't even talk to anyone on her own without daddy being a few feet away. So does she now have a shot at popular music success?
No chance whatsoever. She is a known entity, so the "discovery" by the public is out. The majority of the public doesn't like her at all, only a very small cult like following of her former fan base supports her as well as a small segment of the gay community that didn't get overly offended by the Trump performance. The only reason she is getting the concerts she gets is due to her name recognition from AGT, that's it. Will it continue forever? Maybe, but not likely. WOW !!!! the longest post to read , Congrats !!! i agree with most opinions and i believe she enjoyed Go Time and it was imo her in real time and If , Could Have , Perhaps , Maybe , May Have been her time , Agt fame is imo flaming out fast , no need to call 911 , if Disney signed her they would have found a way to made her a big Star .Book It . Ps She did have a cute personality ""Go Time "" but she needed to be away from family to be free with it . They took it away from her with their " do this " "do that " "don't do this " " don't do that " so she became their puppet or at times their dummy on their lap . |
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Post by richard on Sept 4, 2019 17:09:14 GMT -5
Sure, Jackie has the personality of a dead fish, but these networks are good at recasting people in their own image. They give them classes on how to behave and a script to follow on what to say. Nothing is ever left to chance. I have to disagree with you here Nickelodeon and Disney look for kids that are cheerful and will appeal to their peers. Especially in this new age when they are using social media so much. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 4, 2019 17:22:22 GMT -5
Both Disney and Nickelodeon were looking for the next teen star and the "Go Time" sort of thing is exactly what they were looking for in their next star. But doing a Disney show would have required Jackie to move to LA, something her parents did not want her to do. And it might have forced her to scale down her concert schedule which at that time was very lucrative. Recall that, at the time, everyone expected Jackie to grow to be a superstar and perform in stadiums. Her managers would probably have been severely criticized for allowed her to be diverted to TV. Now, of course, we have the benefit of hindsight. Sure, Jackie has the personality of a dead fish, but these networks are good at recasting people in their own image. They give them classes on how to behave and a script to follow on what to say. Nothing is ever left to chance. But the reason that Disney is able to do so much with their young talent is that they pick their young talent very carefully. They only pick kids they can recast in their own image. Disney knows that you can't change an introvert to an extrovert. Disney has a choice of literally thousands of kids and so they may not have been interested in Jackie. |
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Post by Beachguy on Sept 4, 2019 17:24:43 GMT -5
Sure, Jackie has the personality of a dead fish, but these networks are good at recasting people in their own image. They give them classes on how to behave and a script to follow on what to say. Nothing is ever left to chance. I have to disagree with you here Nickelodeon and Disney look for kids that are cheerful and will appeal to their peers. Especially in this new age when they are using social media so much. i have to disagree with some of both comments , she had at one time a delightful personality but it was taken away and thus the giggles , laughs , smiles disappeared from within the home , had she had a agency to handle her career at 12 with little or no import from family it is another story , pros can make stars from dull to delight with training like a Miley to a Hanna Montana , now Miley has no delight . |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 4, 2019 18:04:32 GMT -5
Sure, Jackie has the personality of a dead fish, but these networks are good at recasting people in their own image. They give them classes on how to behave and a script to follow on what to say. Nothing is ever left to chance. I have to disagree with you here Nickelodeon and Disney look for kids that are cheerful and will appeal to their peers. Especially in this new age when they are using social media so much. Disney only cares if they act cheerful - they don't really care if they are cheerful. If they act cheerful but are actually depressed they are less prone to get into any teenage hijinks that would make the mouse look bad. In a lot of cases these kids end up being something they are not and fall apart once Disney is done with them. Selena Gomez went through severe depression and Lindsay Lohan is the ultimate Disney girl basket case. But at their peaks, both acted cheerful on camera even though they were dealing with some serious issues. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 4, 2019 18:09:52 GMT -5
I have to disagree with you here Nickelodeon and Disney look for kids that are cheerful and will appeal to their peers. Especially in this new age when they are using social media so much. i have to disagree with some of both comments , she had at one time a delightful personality but it was taken away and thus the giggles , laughs , smiles disappeared from within the home , had she had a agency to handle her career at 12 with little or no import from family it is another story , pros can make stars from dull to delight with training like a Miley to a Hanna Montana , now Miley has no delight . Selena Gomez was (and is) an introvert but for the run of Wizards of Waverly Place she looked like a bundle of energy. They got Miley Cyrus - raised by her country boy Daddy and trailer trash mommy - to be the wholesome role model for America's girls. They even got Lindsay Lohan to show up for work. Socalfan, you do not yet understand the power of the dark side.  |
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Post by Disappointed on Sept 4, 2019 18:44:23 GMT -5
Recall that, at the time, everyone expected Jackie to grow to be a superstar and perform in stadiums. LMAO! Yes, I recall that and it seems so hilarious, looking back. I expect the 147 supper club will be much emptier with each successive appearance as well. Maybe Mike can learn a little vaudeville routine to draw in a few more fans. |
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Post by Disappointed on Sept 4, 2019 19:00:14 GMT -5
Selena Gomez was (and is) an introvert but for the run of Wizards of Waverly Place she looked like a bundle of energy. They got Miley Cyrus - raised by her country boy Daddy and trailer trash mommy - to be the wholesome role model for America's girls. They even got Lindsay Lohan to show up for work. Socalfan, you do not yet understand the power of the dark side. The dark side may be powerful, but they also like picking the low hanging fruit like anyone else. There is no sense putting a lot of time and effort into pursuing someone difficult to control and who has unrealistic and adversarial parents. If any talks did occur with Disney or Nickelodeon, my suspicion is they got more than they needed from one interview with the E's. Even Foster hit the road after one fairly successful album and there were a lot of rumors it was due to clashes with Lisa, who eventually did get benched, but probably not before a lot more damage was caused with other potential business dealings. Anyone who may have had any interest in Jackie, and that included Guess Kids and Justice, more than likely figured she didn't have enough potential to be worth the aggravation. |
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Post by richard on Sept 4, 2019 19:54:12 GMT -5
Anyone who may have had any interest in Jackie, and that included Guess Kids and Justice, more than likely figured she didn't have enough potential to be worth the aggravation. Jackie's Go Time for Justice must have been a disaster for Justice Kids only her 60+ year old OTTs must have liked it, It never got near 200k views. Then exactly 3 years later Kenzie comes along as a complete package she had her own choreographer and dancers. It quickly got more views than all their videos put together and tippled their youtube followers. It would have more views but the video is hard to find now that they aren't carrying the same clothing anymore that they wore on the set.
Also Jackie was 14 and a big star at the time, Kenzie was 13 and a independent singer but had a large following. Justice rewarded Kenzie with her own line of Justice clothing.
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