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Post by Disappointed on Mar 3, 2021 23:11:26 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I actually forgot that used to be Juliet's name. Why would you call her Jacob....she hasn't gone by that in years. Is it a spite thing, or an anti-transgender thing? Hey, since you don't respect her anyway, you wouldnt care if she banned you. Why don't you do it? Go pose the question? She just posted a new entry a few hours ago. If she just deletes the question, we know that's what it is, because if that's not it she would definitely want to put that ugly rumor to bed. By the way, dont think its a mental breakdown...she posted a couple witty, humorous one liners on Juliets instagram about three weeks ago...they were playful and didnt seem indicative of someone who is in the throws of a mental breakdown. She also posted an Instagram LIve session about three months before she went dark on social media...she seem VERY well grounded in that session. Although, if the eating disorder part of her got worse, I guess that could lead to her going into a treatment facility or something like that. As I suggested in my prior post, it was an idea for someone on Instagram. I'm not on Instagram and don't really care to be. I call it as I see it. There was no person born named Juliet Evancho, and no person born named Caitlin Jenner. They are Jacob Evancho and Bruce Jenner, both with issues. There is no Elliot Page, just Ellen Page with issues. If I knew a guy named Bob Cobb who changed his name to Santa Claus and dressed in a red suit, I would still call him Bob. If I knew someone who put on floppy ears and ran around the neighborhood barking, I wouldn't call him Fido no matter how much he insisted on it. I recognize reality, not fantasy. That's just how it is. |
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Post by donkey on Mar 3, 2021 23:51:30 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I actually forgot that used to be Juliet's name. Why would you call her Jacob....she hasn't gone by that in years. Is it a spite thing, or an anti-transgender thing? Hey, since you don't respect her anyway, you wouldnt care if she banned you. Why don't you do it? Go pose the question? She just posted a new entry a few hours ago. If she just deletes the question, we know that's what it is, because if that's not it she would definitely want to put that ugly rumor to bed. By the way, dont think its a mental breakdown...she posted a couple witty, humorous one liners on Juliets instagram about three weeks ago...they were playful and didnt seem indicative of someone who is in the throws of a mental breakdown. She also posted an Instagram LIve session about three months before she went dark on social media...she seem VERY well grounded in that session. Although, if the eating disorder part of her got worse, I guess that could lead to her going into a treatment facility or something like that. As I suggested in my prior post, it was an idea for someone on Instagram. I'm not on Instagram and don't really care to be. I call it as I see it. There was no person born named Juliet Evancho, and no person born named Caitlin Jenner. They are Jacob Evancho and Bruce Jenner, both with issues. There is no Elliot Page, just Ellen Page with issues. If I knew a guy named Bob Cobb who changed his name to Santa Claus and dressed in a red suit, I would still call him Bob. If I knew someone who put on floppy ears and ran around the neighborhood barking, I wouldn't call him Fido no matter how much he insisted on it. I recognize reality, not fantasy. That's just how it is. You throwing out sanctimonious, self-righteous pronouncements and demonstrating a lack of what is really common sense is nothing to feel pride in or feel justification in proclaiming that "That's just how it is". It just shows closed minded ignorance and a resistance to try and understand something you don't like. It's common sense that some are born defective, i.e. born in a male body with a female brain, or visa versa. Then you have gay folks, again, brain and genetics gone awry. There are very clearly men who are very feminine and women who are very masculine....and so it makes sense that in a small number of cases its even more extreme than that. Humans are born with all sorts of things that are went haywire with their DNA as they developed in the womb, both physically and mentally. Nobody in their right mind would want to be gay or a different sex if they didn't really feel that's who they are. Why would you want to go the the pain and physical trauma of changing sexes if that's not who you are at the core, and why would you want to put up with a lifetime of discrimination unless you are just trying desperately to be on the outside what you feel in every way on the inside? It makes no sense. You need to self reflect...your view on this isn't coming from a place of objective observation or intellect, it's coming from a place of emotional reaction, or revulsion to something that is not the norm - and thus it must not be valid. It is not the norm, correct...it's a biological defect where the brain and body didn't develop into the same sex. Just be grateful you weren't born that way. |
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Post by BOGC on Mar 4, 2021 1:28:52 GMT -5
As I suggested in my prior post, it was an idea for someone on Instagram. I'm not on Instagram and don't really care to be. I call it as I see it. There was no person born named Juliet Evancho, and no person born named Caitlin Jenner. They are Jacob Evancho and Bruce Jenner, both with issues. There is no Elliot Page, just Ellen Page with issues. If I knew a guy named Bob Cobb who changed his name to Santa Claus and dressed in a red suit, I would still call him Bob. If I knew someone who put on floppy ears and ran around the neighborhood barking, I wouldn't call him Fido no matter how much he insisted on it. I recognize reality, not fantasy. That's just how it is. You throwing out sanctimonious, self-righteous pronouncements and demonstrating a lack of what is really common sense is nothing to feel pride in or feel justification in proclaiming that "That's just how it is". It just shows closed minded ignorance and a resistance to try and understand something you don't like. It's common sense that some are born defective, i.e. born in a male body with a female brain, or visa versa. Then you have gay folks, again, brain and genetics gone awry. There are very clearly men who are very feminine and women who are very masculine....and so it makes sense that in a small number of cases its even more extreme than that. Humans are born with all sorts of things that are went haywire with their DNA as they developed in the womb, both physically and mentally. Nobody in their right mind would want to be gay or a different sex if they didn't really feel that's who they are. Why would you want to go the the pain and physical trauma of changing sexes if that's not who you are at the core, and why would you want to put up with a lifetime of discrimination unless you are just trying desperately to be on the outside what you feel in every way on the inside? It makes no sense. You need to self reflect...your view on this isn't coming from a place of objective observation or intellect, it's coming from a place of emotional reaction, or revulsion to something that is not the norm - and thus it must not be valid. It is not the norm, correct...it's a biological defect where the brain and body didn't develop into the same sex. Just be grateful you weren't born that way. I don't know that I do OR don't buy your "common sense". A brain is mostly a brain, ALTHOUGH exposure to atypical pre-natal hormone levels could affect how it wires itself as it grows. But the brain is pretty flexible until at LEAST age five. So if one does NOT cater to peculiarities especially prior to age five, but points (without pushing too hard, to be sure) in the standard direction, there's IMO a possibility that, perhaps not always, but at least sometimes, that will mostly take hold. Given outcomes whether one does or doesn't get oneself altered are still problematic for those of non-chromosomal identity*, it seems to me that sparing some of them that difficulty rather than catering to it, IF that can be done early enough, would be a service to them. At any rate, something like that which is less about identity politics OR fundamentalism, and more about how things probably work, makes sense to me, although it would please neither LGBTQ advocates nor fundamentalists. It is flexible enough that I don't have to use absolutes (either way) as weapons, which is nice, 'cause mostly, I'd rather not. Having said all that (and satisfies my inclination to leave nobody un-offended), if someone wants to be called "Fido", unless they also have a real dog called "Fido" (which would definitely cause confusion), it's common COURTESY to just go along with what they want. People have nicknames too, some that they like, some that they don't. Courtesy to use the one they like, too. * edit: and I'm not willing to blame poor outcomes entirely on discrimination or pressure to conform. Normal is normal for a reason (call it keeping the species around, if you prefer to avoid mysticism), and a degree of societal favoritism for normal is a functional thing. There will ALWAYS be a price to pay for being different, and while NOBODY should be murdered, assaulted, threatened, bullied, etc, there always will be, and arguably even should be to some degree. No, it's not fair. Too bad. It's not fair for some people to be born lame, blind, whatever, either. Doesn't mean society should be REQUIRED to help them bear their burdens. It's also not fair to people with very different ideas - although most are probably loons, a few are probably well ahead of their time. Again, it's their burden, and the LAST place people are equal is in their burdens. Doesn't mean we should be a bunch of cookie-cutter people, but it means that Mr. Spock notwithstanding, no IDIC - diversity and combinations CANNOT be infinite in a functioning society, they have to have some limits; not super narrow, but not quite anything goes, either. Unless of course you give the states back some power, so that it's like the separate planets of the Federation, where they can to a degree cater to one difference or another rather than all differences. Mid-to-southern California, being different is nearly a badge of honor. Utah, not so much. And that should be fine. |
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Post by Disappointed on Mar 4, 2021 17:51:41 GMT -5
As I suggested in my prior post, it was an idea for someone on Instagram. I'm not on Instagram and don't really care to be. I call it as I see it. There was no person born named Juliet Evancho, and no person born named Caitlin Jenner. They are Jacob Evancho and Bruce Jenner, both with issues. There is no Elliot Page, just Ellen Page with issues. If I knew a guy named Bob Cobb who changed his name to Santa Claus and dressed in a red suit, I would still call him Bob. If I knew someone who put on floppy ears and ran around the neighborhood barking, I wouldn't call him Fido no matter how much he insisted on it. I recognize reality, not fantasy. That's just how it is. You throwing out sanctimonious, self-righteous pronouncements and demonstrating a lack of what is really common sense is nothing to feel pride in or feel justification in proclaiming that "That's just how it is". It just shows closed minded ignorance and a resistance to try and understand something you don't like. It's common sense that some are born defective, i.e. born in a male body with a female brain, or visa versa. Then you have gay folks, again, brain and genetics gone awry. There are very clearly men who are very feminine and women who are very masculine....and so it makes sense that in a small number of cases its even more extreme than that. Humans are born with all sorts of things that are went haywire with their DNA as they developed in the womb, both physically and mentally. Nobody in their right mind would want to be gay or a different sex if they didn't really feel that's who they are. Why would you want to go the the pain and physical trauma of changing sexes if that's not who you are at the core, and why would you want to put up with a lifetime of discrimination unless you are just trying desperately to be on the outside what you feel in every way on the inside? It makes no sense. You need to self reflect...your view on this isn't coming from a place of objective observation or intellect, it's coming from a place of emotional reaction, or revulsion to something that is not the norm - and thus it must not be valid. It is not the norm, correct...it's a biological defect where the brain and body didn't develop into the same sex. Just be grateful you weren't born that way. Apparently one person's definition of common sense is another person's definition of foolishness. I'd rather be sanctimonious and self righteous than gullible and foolish, swallowing everything that small segments of the population with serious issues comes up with. Funny that you don't see this problem in many other parts of the world where there is a bit more discipline and control over how people are allowed to act. Surely there are just as many people with this type of mental issue in those countries, but they are not allowed to run amuck so they learn to deal with it. Maybe women who would like to be men become swearing truck drivers or men who would like to be women become ballet dancers, which has been the case for decades with those who don't quite fit the norm. But this business of men pretending to be women and women pretending to be men and changing their body parts and names accordingly is asinine to say the least. If archaeologists hundreds of years from now dig up Jacob Evancho and Bruce Jenner, they will be declared to be 2 males, which is what they are. If they dig up Ellen Page, she will be declared to be a female. Dem bones don't lie. |
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Post by donkey on Mar 4, 2021 18:27:00 GMT -5
You throwing out sanctimonious, self-righteous pronouncements and demonstrating a lack of what is really common sense is nothing to feel pride in or feel justification in proclaiming that "That's just how it is". It just shows closed minded ignorance and a resistance to try and understand something you don't like. It's common sense that some are born defective, i.e. born in a male body with a female brain, or visa versa. Then you have gay folks, again, brain and genetics gone awry. There are very clearly men who are very feminine and women who are very masculine....and so it makes sense that in a small number of cases its even more extreme than that. Humans are born with all sorts of things that are went haywire with their DNA as they developed in the womb, both physically and mentally. Nobody in their right mind would want to be gay or a different sex if they didn't really feel that's who they are. Why would you want to go the the pain and physical trauma of changing sexes if that's not who you are at the core, and why would you want to put up with a lifetime of discrimination unless you are just trying desperately to be on the outside what you feel in every way on the inside? It makes no sense. You need to self reflect...your view on this isn't coming from a place of objective observation or intellect, it's coming from a place of emotional reaction, or revulsion to something that is not the norm - and thus it must not be valid. It is not the norm, correct...it's a biological defect where the brain and body didn't develop into the same sex. Just be grateful you weren't born that way. Apparently one person's definition of common sense is another person's definition of foolishness. I'd rather be sanctimonious and self righteous than gullible and foolish, swallowing everything that small segments of the population with serious issues comes up with. Funny that you don't see this problem in many other parts of the world where there is a bit more discipline and control over how people are allowed to act. Surely there are just as many people with this type of mental issue in those countries, but they are not allowed to run amuck so they learn to deal with it. Maybe women who would like to be men become swearing truck drivers or men who would like to be women become ballet dancers, which has been the case for decades with those who don't quite fit the norm. But this business of men pretending to be women and women pretending to be men and changing their body parts and names accordingly is asinine to say the least. If archaeologists hundreds of years from now dig up Jacob Evancho and Bruce Jenner, they will be declared to be 2 males, which is what they are. If they dig up Ellen Page, she will be declared to be a female. Dem bones don't lie. Try to keep up Einstein...obviously the archaeologists would find them physically male or female. If you had paid attention, you would have read that we are talking about the brain, how it developed before birth, and how these people identify and feel psychologically. We know that there are very masculine males and very feminine males, same with females. We also know there are people born gay as sh*t. There are birth defects that run the gamut, both physical, hormonally, mentally, etc. Its not at all difficult to imagine a male or female being born with the chromosomes/dna/horomones/brain being jacked up/ skewed/ not normal/not matching up with their biological sex. Men and women think very differently, as we all know. It's not at all difficult to image a body forming into one sex, and thru some error in development, the brain developing the other way. All you have to do is look at an extremely effeminate gay male to see an example of that - that's no man upstairs. LOL There are people born with both sex organs too. You do know that, right? This isn't rocket science...it's just obvious and common sense. It's a biological defect...people are born with them every day, both physical and mental defects of every kind. Could there be some for whom this isn't the case, that they just chose to change sexes for the hell of it? Sure, probably. But for the vast majority who chose to undergo the extreme act, at great expense and pain, of actually changing their sex, the potential alienation of their family and friends, and vicious discrimination of those who can't accept such a thing, that just doesn't make sense unless they just can't live the way they are as it's not who they are. That's the common sense part. |
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Post by Disappointed on Mar 4, 2021 20:58:32 GMT -5
Apparently one person's definition of common sense is another person's definition of foolishness. I'd rather be sanctimonious and self righteous than gullible and foolish, swallowing everything that small segments of the population with serious issues comes up with. Funny that you don't see this problem in many other parts of the world where there is a bit more discipline and control over how people are allowed to act. Surely there are just as many people with this type of mental issue in those countries, but they are not allowed to run amuck so they learn to deal with it. Maybe women who would like to be men become swearing truck drivers or men who would like to be women become ballet dancers, which has been the case for decades with those who don't quite fit the norm. But this business of men pretending to be women and women pretending to be men and changing their body parts and names accordingly is asinine to say the least. If archaeologists hundreds of years from now dig up Jacob Evancho and Bruce Jenner, they will be declared to be 2 males, which is what they are. If they dig up Ellen Page, she will be declared to be a female. Dem bones don't lie. Try to keep up Einstein...obviously the archaeologists would find them physically male or female. If you had paid attention, you would have read that we are talking about the brain, how it developed before birth, and how these people identify and feel psychologically. We know that there are very masculine males and very feminine males, same with females. We also know there are people born gay as sh*t. There are birth defects that run the gamut, both physical, hormonally, mentally, etc. Its not at all difficult to imagine a male or female being born with the chromosomes/dna/horomones/brain being jacked up/ skewed/ not normal/not matching up with their biological sex. Men and women think very differently, as we all know. It's not at all difficult to image a body forming into one sex, and thru some error in development, the brain developing the other way. All you have to do is look at an extremely effeminate gay male to see an example of that - that's no man upstairs. LOL There are people born with both sex organs too. You do know that, right? This isn't rocket science...it's just obvious and common sense. It's a biological defect...people are born with them every day, both physical and mental defects of every kind. Could there be some for whom this isn't the case, that they just chose to change sexes for the hell of it? Sure, probably. But for the vast majority who chose to undergo the extreme act, at great expense and pain, of actually changing their sex, the potential alienation of their family and friends, and vicious discrimination of those who can't accept such a thing, that just doesn't make sense unless they just can't live the way they are as it's not who they are. That's the common sense part. You're digging yourself a deeper hole like the donkey you are. Obviously this is all about mental and psychological problems, defective brains, imbalances or what have you. That is the common sense part. But just because someone has a mental illness, be it the result of a chemical imbalance, hormonal imbalance etc. doesn't mean they can think themselves into being something they are not, even with some strategic surgery. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, a dog is a dog, and a cat is a cat. That's it. Just because a man wants to be a woman and takes extreme steps to make himself appear that way, doesn't mean he is a woman, and vice versa. Notice that I never said they can't pretend to be whatever they want. I just said I am not recognizing it, acknowledging it or buying into it. Nothing you can do to change that. Too bad so sad that you can't conform everyone to your little cause. Jacob is Jacob, Bruce is Bruce, Ellen is Ellen. Yes, they all have mental and psychological issues, but they are what they are. Case closed. |
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Post by donkey on Mar 4, 2021 21:30:53 GMT -5
Try to keep up Einstein...obviously the archaeologists would find them physically male or female. If you had paid attention, you would have read that we are talking about the brain, how it developed before birth, and how these people identify and feel psychologically. We know that there are very masculine males and very feminine males, same with females. We also know there are people born gay as sh*t. There are birth defects that run the gamut, both physical, hormonally, mentally, etc. Its not at all difficult to imagine a male or female being born with the chromosomes/dna/horomones/brain being jacked up/ skewed/ not normal/not matching up with their biological sex. Men and women think very differently, as we all know. It's not at all difficult to image a body forming into one sex, and thru some error in development, the brain developing the other way. All you have to do is look at an extremely effeminate gay male to see an example of that - that's no man upstairs. LOL There are people born with both sex organs too. You do know that, right? This isn't rocket science...it's just obvious and common sense. It's a biological defect...people are born with them every day, both physical and mental defects of every kind. Could there be some for whom this isn't the case, that they just chose to change sexes for the hell of it? Sure, probably. But for the vast majority who chose to undergo the extreme act, at great expense and pain, of actually changing their sex, the potential alienation of their family and friends, and vicious discrimination of those who can't accept such a thing, that just doesn't make sense unless they just can't live the way they are as it's not who they are. That's the common sense part. You're digging yourself a deeper hole like the donkey you are. Obviously this is all about mental and psychological problems, defective brains, imbalances or what have you. That is the common sense part. But just because someone has a mental illness, be it the result of a chemical imbalance, hormonal imbalance etc. doesn't mean they can think themselves into being something they are not, even with some strategic surgery. A man is a man, a woman is a woman, a dog is a dog, and a cat is a cat. That's it. Just because a man wants to be a woman and takes extreme steps to make himself appear that way, doesn't mean he is a woman, and vice versa. Notice that I never said they can't pretend to be whatever they want. I just said I am not recognizing it, acknowledging it or buying into it. Nothing you can do to change that. Too bad so sad that you can't conform everyone to your little cause. Jacob is Jacob, Bruce is Bruce, Ellen is Ellen. Yes, they all have mental and psychological issues, but they are what they are. Case closed. Oh, my very simple, closed minded, "I'm right no matter how wrong I am" friend. Try to at least take this away from the conversation - things can go awry in the womb, and its possible to have a brain that is female and a body that is male...or the opposite. Then the question is how does that person try to fix that so that they are as happy as possible considering their situation. You can't make a female brain male, or a male brain female. So then you are left with the decision whether to change your body to approximate the sex of your mind - personal choice. That's as simple as I can put if for you. If you are unable or are unwilling to get that, I don't know what to tell ya. LoL It's really not a difficult concept to understand, and to just respond with, "a man is a man and a woman is a woman, period" is just an intellectually dead response. It's something someone says who has no interest in really trying to understand what is going on here, but instead is merely interested in rejecting something they find displeasing. You won't ever learn anything or win any debates that way, but good luck with that. lol |
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Post by richard on Mar 4, 2021 21:55:38 GMT -5
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Post by BOGC on Mar 4, 2021 22:10:01 GMT -5
You can't make a female brain male, or a male brain female. Actually, if you caught it very very early, you probably could. But any later than a very few years old, and the attempt would likely do more harm than good. There's always the celibacy option, for those for which the conventional is unsatisfactory. If someone was born that way and CANNOT change or is too old to change, there's also the possibility of unusual folks of complementary unusualness pairing off - they'd at least understand some of each other's difficulties. :-) While I'm not aware of any study into outcomes for THAT (pretty small sample, and likely to be unwilling to be studied), it seems that it'd have better odds than trying to find someone who was nominally conventional but just didn't care that a prospective partner wasn't. |
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Post by BOGC on Mar 4, 2021 22:10:46 GMT -5
You can't make a female brain male, or a male brain female. Actually, if you caught it very very early, you probably could. But any later than a very few years old, and the attempt would likely do more harm than good. edit: and I'm not saying that we know enough even to do what is doable without first doing no harm. There's always the celibacy option, for those for which the conventional is unsatisfactory. If someone was born that way and CANNOT change or is too old to change, there's also the possibility of unusual folks of complementary unusualness pairing off - they'd at least understand some of each other's difficulties. :-) While I'm not aware of any study into outcomes for THAT (pretty small sample, and likely to be unwilling to be studied), it seems that it'd have better odds than trying to find someone who was nominally conventional but just didn't care that a prospective partner wasn't - (edit:) because the conventional one probably wouldn't remain satisfied with such an arrangement. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Mar 4, 2021 22:47:29 GMT -5
But just because someone has a mental illness, be it the result of a chemical imbalance, hormonal imbalance etc. doesn't mean they can think themselves into being something they are not, even with some strategic surgery. Do you think the same applies to homosexuals? Do you believe that a gay man is a mentally ill person who thinks himself into being attracted to other men? Notice that I never said they can't pretend to be whatever they want. I just said I am not recognizing it, acknowledging it or buying into it. Nothing you can do to change that. Do you believe that gay men are pretending to be attracted to other men? Do you refuse to recognize, acknowledge or buy into gayness? |
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Post by Colt46 on Mar 4, 2021 22:52:05 GMT -5
Disappointed is no expert in what he is saying,if he is he should post his qualifications!
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Post by Disappointed on Mar 4, 2021 23:24:25 GMT -5
But just because someone has a mental illness, be it the result of a chemical imbalance, hormonal imbalance etc. doesn't mean they can think themselves into being something they are not, even with some strategic surgery. Do you think the same applies to homosexuals? Do you believe that a gay man is a mentally ill person who thinks himself into being attracted to other men? Notice that I never said they can't pretend to be whatever they want. I just said I am not recognizing it, acknowledging it or buying into it. Nothing you can do to change that. Do you believe that gay men are pretending to be attracted to other men? Do you refuse to recognize, acknowledge or buy into gayness? I consider this a different situation altogether. I would consider it more in the area of abnormal desires. Whether you want to classify that as a mental illness is your call. There are other types of abnormal desires that people have as well such as pedophilia and bestiality. The difference being that gayness has become acceptable in Western societies where the other two obviously are not. None of the three are acceptable in many other parts of the world. Do you believe that gay men are pretending to be attracted to other men? Do you refuse to recognize, acknowledge or buy into gayness?Not pretending, just abnormal desires as mentioned. I recognize and acknowledge it, but certainly don't buy into it. But they are not pretending to be women even though one could say that a man being attracted to a man could indicate he may have a woman's brain. |
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Post by Disappointed on Mar 4, 2021 23:27:48 GMT -5
Disappointed is no expert in what he is saying,if he is he should post his qualifications!  |
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Post by Colt46 on Mar 5, 2021 14:09:31 GMT -5
I am still waiting Disappointed!
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