Leftwing Conspiracy Theorist
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Post by Leftwing Conspiracy Theorist on Sept 16, 2024 18:38:10 GMT -5
I'll ask you the same questions as I asked BOGC: (1) who determines the criteria used to define "tyrant", and (2) who decides whether an individual meets the definition of that criteria? As I said below, those definitions are subjective. Agreed, under our present gun system it is all subjective. Which means that every gun owner gets to decide how he will use his guns. Among the gun owners making the subjective decision were the 2 Trump would-be assassins who made the choices they made. I happen to think this system sucks and I think the system should be changed. But this is the system that Trump and the conservatives wanted and created and if they don't like it, they need to accept responsibility for it. Virtually every other first world country has much lower gun homicide rates and I think we can do better.
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Post by donkey on Sept 16, 2024 19:57:50 GMT -5
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Post by donkey on Sept 16, 2024 20:04:30 GMT -5
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Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist
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Post by Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist on Sept 16, 2024 20:04:44 GMT -5
As I said below, those definitions are subjective. Agreed, under our present gun system it is all subjective. Which means that every gun owner gets to decide how he will use his guns. Among the gun owners making the subjective decision were the 2 Trump would-be assassins who made the choices they made. I happen to think this system sucks and I think the system should be changed. But this is the system that Trump and the conservatives wanted and created and if they don't like it, they need to accept responsibility for it. Virtually every other first world country has much lower gun homicide rates and I think we can do better. Most of us are weary from the continued stories about school shootings, murders, assassination attempts and so on. Unfortunately, violent events such as these have been around since man's beginning and will be there to the end. The Constitution does not allow every citizen to use their weapons willy-nilly, so I disagree with the assertion that everyone can do what they want. We have laws that ensure that people will suffer consequences if they commit murder. Guns are meant for self-defense so the system is fine as it is. It was neither Trump nor conservatives that invented the current system. If any one is to "blame" it is the founders. Personally, I think the system has worked surprisingly well since. so far, the United States has avoided having the Stalins, or the Maos of the world ruling here. One thing that has always surprised me is when Democrats call for gun control. One would think that if Democrats were afraid that Trump, or some other conservative figure would destroy democracy and become a tyrant, the Dems would want to be armed to overthrow the tyrant. Conservatives IMO, have done a better job thinking through this issue because they pay closer attention to socialist/communist societies that have implemented gun control and shortly thereafter, genocidal policies. Conservatives are always on the lookout for the next commie tyrant. One would think that Democrats would want to retain their guns if they believe the next conservative tyrant is just around the corner. Conservatives know that, based on history, the next tyrant IS around the corner, and therefore are more adamant about 2nd amendment rights. Every time someone like Beto O'Rourke says he will take away the guns, conservative alarm bells go off and think - "there's the next tyrant". Republicans wants us to have weapons so that if they or anyone else becomes tyrants, we can do something about it. Democrats want to disarm us so that if they became tyrants, we will be left helpless.
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Post by colt46 on Sept 16, 2024 20:06:33 GMT -5
Bad guys don’t go by rules, they will always find a way to get a gun! In fact the guy who tried to assassinate Trump on Sunday had a felony record so he wasn’t eligible to have a gun ! The gun he had had part of the serial number filed off , so I suspect it was bought illegally! So stop 🛑 with this blaming Trump for all the gun violence in America 🇺🇸! That is a load of crap 💩!
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Post by colt46 on Sept 16, 2024 20:08:56 GMT -5
That’s what tyrants do disarm the citizens so they can’t fight back !
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Post by donkey on Sept 16, 2024 20:28:19 GMT -5
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Post by Family on Sept 16, 2024 22:14:55 GMT -5
She can read him like a book
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Post by Breaking News! on Sept 16, 2024 22:33:53 GMT -5
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Post by The NEW President on Sept 16, 2024 22:39:37 GMT -5
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Post by The 19th Hole on Sept 16, 2024 23:09:27 GMT -5
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Post by JD Vimagine on Sept 16, 2024 23:28:08 GMT -5
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Post by BOGC on Sept 17, 2024 0:20:36 GMT -5
You don't get to shoot until the other guy seriously crosses a line. But you missed the point. Who has the power to decide when somebody crosses the line and when somebody doesn't cross the line? Ultimately, every individual, whether sane, criminal, or psycho, has that power, with or without guns, if they're smart enough and patient enough and careful enough to plan without getting caught. I can think of many ways to kill a large number of people, or a small number at a distance, that do not require guns at all. (most of that comes from well researched fiction authors or checking their research which I do with many things, rather than from specifically looking for it; not everyone googling how to implement scary scenarios is up to anything more than fact checking) That doesn't imply any desire to be in any situation where I might need to seriously consider such options. I'd rather avoid than physically confront, but I'm not stupid enough to rule it out, any more than a country with nukes is stupid enough to rule out ever using them. So who determines what's premature, when to cross the line? I do; or you do, or whoever is considering it does. No rule can anticipate every circumstance in detail. And the cops won't show up in time. But liberty, deterrence, and equalizing granny with thug, DOES require guns. EVERY politician should if not quite fear, at have least healthy respect for the citizens. I certainly don't condone, but don't totally hate unjustified attempts as long as they fail, because it should be a reminder to BOTH SIDES to stop grabbing for all the power they can. Liberty is more important than your life, my life, either of our loved ones lives, and certainly more important than the lives of politicians. Not that anyone should EVER lightly consider taking a life. I'd argue that liberty is more important than ALL LIFE. Without liberty, life isn't good for anything.
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Post by BOGC on Sept 17, 2024 0:37:52 GMT -5
As I said below, those definitions are subjective. Agreed, under our present gun system it is all subjective. Which means that every gun owner gets to decide how he will use his guns. Guns do NOT enable violence, they're not self-driving. Brains enable violence, guns ONLY make a difference equalizing weak vs strong, and while still requiring practice to be effective, require far less than a black belt or a knife. Guns donn't necessarily even enable a greater scale or frequency of violence. That's on culture, and on failure to enforce laws vigorously before someone reaches the level of attempted murder. Mostly on the left, in other words. Everyone, gun owner or not, gets to decide how they will use their brains, whether and when they will use them violently. Reality is absolute, but perception is ALWAYS subjective, and potential nuts and criminals are ALWAYS there given sufficient numbers of people. Do you REALLY need to see verified lists of knife, explosive, nerve gas, etc mass murders (or attempts), let alone assassinations or attempts? Get real. You're only hearing the narrative you want to hear. Serious enforcement would reduce the criminal problem considerably. The crazy problem can be somewhat reduced, but protecting due process (so someone isn't treated as dangerous just because someone perhaps with a grudge claims they might be) while still spotting them cannot entirely succeed. Some crazies are quiet and stealthy enough not to get caught until it's too late. They're probably more dangerous than a lot of the trash talkers. A number HAVE been spotted, but either there were paperwork failures, or the warning signs did not reach a level justifying acting before they acted. Innocent blood spilled by those who cannot be stopped in advance without egregious loss of liberty, is an UNAVOIDABLE cost of liberty (even if guns did not exist at all), along with soldier's blood and other costs (like people demanding of themselves some bleeping responsibility, rather than expecting government or society to be responsible). I wonder if some of the same f-wits that want gun control would if they were billionaires be among those wanting to buy themselves the invention of tech to give them physical immortality (there are some billionaires that think like that). You are responsible for your OWN outcomes (and if you wish, for helping others), but you CANNOT guarantee them nor expect them to be guaranteed. We will ALL die sooner or later, better to live free until then, even at greater risk of dying sooner. If you disagree, please leave the country, you're unfit to live among free people.
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Post by Billboards on Sept 17, 2024 0:49:21 GMT -5
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