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Post by Beachguy on Dec 11, 2017 15:43:42 GMT -5
I think every one is in agreement on that. Yes JR. I agree with Gordy also. This would be no stroll in the park. However, as I mentioned earlier, the current situation is untenable. We have a megalomaniac's megalomaniac on the hereditary totalitarian throne of an emerging nuclear state. He was raised to rule. No one has ever, or would ever dare to, tell him no. He has executed family members with anti-aircraft guns, ravenous dogs and poison mist. He has kidnapped Japanese schoolgirls for his harem. He has rudimentary nuclear weapons and soon will have a dependable ICBM delivery system. Submarine launched ballistic missiles are thought to be only a few Summers away. The cold war paradigm that would not allow a fellow Communist state to be invaded by the West has subsided/morphed into a quasi capitalist system in both Russia, and even more so in China. They now face the same mundane problems of keeping their populations employed as we in the West have been dealing with for a century or more. I think China could be persuaded of the benefits of a peaceful, prosperous, unified Korea as a trading partner bringing real value in place of the formerly useful and currently expensive, ever more out of control barking lapdog that is N. Korea today. Some creative diplomatic suggestions behind the scenes and perhaps the promise of a timed withdrawal of U.S. forces from the peninsula could be beneficial for all concerned as we and the South Koreans alleviate our untenable situation. We can't leave , we feed the world and watch over them , they start a war and we take care of them , check out the cars in America |
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Post by Beachguy on Dec 11, 2017 15:45:25 GMT -5
BANG BANG !!!!! I GOT YU , 
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Post by richard on Dec 11, 2017 18:47:36 GMT -5
I can agree with your rebuttal that China would stay neutral if N. Korea started a conflict and it was non-nuclear. However, I don't trust that chubby little rutabaga to keep his fingers off the button. What would the US response be if a nuke or two were sent to S. Korea and perhaps Guam? Would there be a nuclear response in return? If so would China still sit back hoping that no nuclear fallout came their way?
N Korea will continue to ignore Trump and his threats regarding his nuclear deterrent program. Trump is either going need to chew his tongue or respond with military action. That means the US will initiate something in order to show the chubby little rutabaga the errors of his ways. That would open the door to China and Russia to choose to respond to a neighboring communist country. Would the rutabaga go nuclear if he felt his butt being whipped? This is the real crux of the matter......who will blink first .......both need to save face.
Bottom line is we can destroy them, and they can't destroy us...for now. And the Chinese have their cities near North Korea doing nuclear survival drills, meaning they know that fallout might come their way. ("If war breaks out, it is not possible to rule out the Korean peninsula producing nuclear contaminants, and countermeasures must be seriously researched and spoken openly about to let the common folk know.") They've only said they'd remain neutral if NK started it, and not if we started it; but AFAIK they've said _nothing_ implying that fallout on their territory would constitute an attack on them. They want the North as a buffer between them and the US-defended South; but what with the North not having given them advance notice of recent nuclear tests, they're not confident that the buffer is worth the hassle. And anyway, the prevailing wind tends to be from the northwest, meaning that fallout would tend to go more toward Japan (and eventually the west coast of the US, but vastly reduced by then) than toward China. At this point, the question is still what pressure will cause them to alter their behavior _without_ direct use of force. Once their achieving the ability to inflict not just serious but grave harm on us starts getting very close (less than some few months we might not be able to judge accurately), there won't be room for a peaceful settlement anymore...and they need to understand that before it gets there, which means putting ever-increasing pressure on them until either they snap or they back down. Now, there are ways they can back off a little without being humiliated, and even Trump is probably capable of understanding that it would do no good to twist the knife if they did. And if they scaled down, we could offer some gesture (that they could claim was due to their influence, but given our far better air transport capabilities, quickly enough reversible not to significantly impair our ability to react). And if they did something they have NEVER DONE BEFORE and established a pattern of reasonable behavior, things could get significantly better. You'd do better to have some barrels of water set aside, plastic sheeting, duct tape, food, etc, than to hold your breath expecting them to be that reasonable. Even a decent gas mask and some iodine pills (the ones to protect your thyroid by saturation are quite a bit stronger than usual supplements, and not to be taken casually) don't cost that much (I have both, since I don't trust anyone I don't know personally, and not all of them). Even if nobody lobs nukes, most precautionary measures would still be useful in the case of non-military natural or man-made disasters, which do happen from time to time; so it's not like a bit of personal readiness is a total waste. I like your thinking, funny you mentioned the iodine pills, I had them (for just in case) but when Japan had that nuclear power plant disaster. They couldn't be bought anywhere because of the demand in Japan and I sold the ones I had on E-Bay and bought some more when they became available.Also I doesn't hurt to have some Antibiotics on hand. I also had gas masks I bought from cheaper than dirt for $9. And sold them for $50 dollars and gave my niece one that worked in NY at the time and was frantic because she couldn't get one. Before 911 seems no one in NYC thought about how to get out of a smoked filled building until after the fact. I always looked at being prepared as a type of insurance. I believe if there ever was a nuclear W-III that most Americans would die because of ignorance than anything else. |
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gordy
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Post by gordy on Dec 11, 2017 21:43:04 GMT -5
I think every one is in agreement on that. Yes JR. I agree with Gordy also. This would be no stroll in the park. However, as I mentioned earlier, the current situation is untenable. We have a megalomaniac's megalomaniac on the hereditary totalitarian throne of an emerging nuclear state. He was raised to rule. No one has ever, or would ever dare to, tell him no. He has executed family members with anti-aircraft guns, ravenous dogs and poison mist. He has kidnapped Japanese schoolgirls for his harem. He has rudimentary nuclear weapons and soon will have a dependable ICBM delivery system. Submarine launched ballistic missiles are thought to be only a few Summers away. The cold war paradigm that would not allow a fellow Communist state to be invaded by the West has subsided/morphed into a quasi capitalist system in both Russia, and even more so in China. They now face the same mundane problems of keeping their populations employed as we in the West have been dealing with for a century or more. I think China could be persuaded of the benefits of a peaceful, prosperous, unified Korea as a trading partner bringing real value in place of the formerly useful and currently expensive, ever more out of control barking lapdog that is N. Korea today. Some creative diplomatic suggestions behind the scenes and perhaps the promise of a timed withdrawal of U.S. forces from the peninsula could be beneficial for all concerned as we and the South Koreans alleviate our untenable situation. It is difficult to disagree with the logic of your post with the possible exception of China and Russia, both having some capitalist tendencies, simply do not fully trust the current US administration. One can't blame them or even western democracies, when it has been made very clear .....a USA first mindset exists. If John McCain was 10 - 15 years younger I think he would have been the Republican Party's 1st choice and would have likely garnered a significant majority of the popular vote. His word would have been more readily accepted by both east and western countries. The fact is that much of the world's current leadership do not trust Trump and I believe he is the one flaw in your logic. |
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Post by richard on Dec 12, 2017 3:24:07 GMT -5
Yes JR. I agree with Gordy also. This would be no stroll in the park. However, as I mentioned earlier, the current situation is untenable. We have a megalomaniac's megalomaniac on the hereditary totalitarian throne of an emerging nuclear state. He was raised to rule. No one has ever, or would ever dare to, tell him no. He has executed family members with anti-aircraft guns, ravenous dogs and poison mist. He has kidnapped Japanese schoolgirls for his harem. He has rudimentary nuclear weapons and soon will have a dependable ICBM delivery system. Submarine launched ballistic missiles are thought to be only a few Summers away. The cold war paradigm that would not allow a fellow Communist state to be invaded by the West has subsided/morphed into a quasi capitalist system in both Russia, and even more so in China. They now face the same mundane problems of keeping their populations employed as we in the West have been dealing with for a century or more. I think China could be persuaded of the benefits of a peaceful, prosperous, unified Korea as a trading partner bringing real value in place of the formerly useful and currently expensive, ever more out of control barking lapdog that is N. Korea today. Some creative diplomatic suggestions behind the scenes and perhaps the promise of a timed withdrawal of U.S. forces from the peninsula could be beneficial for all concerned as we and the South Koreans alleviate our untenable situation. It is difficult to disagree with the logic of your post with the possible exception of China and Russia, both having some capitalist tendencies, simply do not fully trust the current US administration. One can't blame them or even western democracies, when it has been made very clear .....a USA first mindset exists. If John McCain was 10 - 15 years younger I think he would have been the Republican Party's 1st choice and would have likely garnered a significant majority of the popular vote. His word would have been more readily accepted by both east and western countries. The fact is that much of the world's current leadership do not trust Trump and I believe he is the one flaw in your logic. I don't think the other leaders of the world don't trust Trump, I think they are afraid that he won't back down like the other administration we had in the last few decades. They are worried that Trump isn't going to let North Korea get away with things like they did in the past. |
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gordy
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Post by gordy on Dec 12, 2017 20:20:21 GMT -5
Richard..... you are so wrong about others having trust in the Trumpet. He frequently sounds off in his tweets only to find that there is a need to backtrack. But a perfect example of lost trust is shown in his recent recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The Palestinians up to that point were at least listening to the US peace initiatives and had expectations that somewhere along the process part of Jerusalem would be recognized as the capital of a new determined Palestine. Now they cannot believe the US has anyone's best interest at heart other than Trumpet's America 1st position. The middle east is very unlikely to accept anything the US has to say about negotiations in good faith. Trump has all but walked away from NAFTA because he can't get his way without fair negotiation. He withdrew from the TPP, he is withdrawing from the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, and he threatens to withdraw from the Iran Nuclear Deal.
All parties to the various agreements have little reason to trust Trump and the US. It has nothing to do with fearing that big windbag, it has everything to do with how badly Trump has tarnished the reputation of the US. You can be absolutely certain that China, Russia and even India have nothing to fear from Trump and China and Russia certainly don't trust him.
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Post by Beachguy on Dec 14, 2017 12:37:37 GMT -5
Richard..... you are so wrong about others having trust in the Trumpet. He frequently sounds off in his tweets only to find that there is a need to backtrack. But a perfect example of lost trust is shown in his recent recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The Palestinians up to that point were at least listening to the US peace initiatives and had expectations that somewhere along the process part of Jerusalem would be recognized as the capital of a new determined Palestine. Now they cannot believe the US has anyone's best interest at heart other than Trumpet's America 1st position. The middle east is very unlikely to accept anything the US has to say about negotiations in good faith. Trump has all but walked away from NAFTA because he can't get his way without fair negotiation. He withdrew from the TPP, he is withdrawing from the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, and he threatens to withdraw from the Iran Nuclear Deal. All parties to the various agreements have little reason to trust Trump and the US. It has nothing to do with fearing that big windbag, it has everything to do with how badly Trump has tarnished the reputation of the US. You can be absolutely certain that China, Russia and even India have nothing to fear from Trump and China and Russia certainly don't trust him. Fake news even here and phony opinions , the Countries of the world now respects us as we have a real strong leader not one of lies and fear ,no more walking on us , read other networks to get real truth and facts , the UN is a complete waste of time and money . |
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Post by Beachguy on Dec 14, 2017 12:40:39 GMT -5
Yes JR. I agree with Gordy also. This would be no stroll in the park. However, as I mentioned earlier, the current situation is untenable. We have a megalomaniac's megalomaniac on the hereditary totalitarian throne of an emerging nuclear state. He was raised to rule. No one has ever, or would ever dare to, tell him no. He has executed family members with anti-aircraft guns, ravenous dogs and poison mist. He has kidnapped Japanese schoolgirls for his harem. He has rudimentary nuclear weapons and soon will have a dependable ICBM delivery system. Submarine launched ballistic missiles are thought to be only a few Summers away. The cold war paradigm that would not allow a fellow Communist state to be invaded by the West has subsided/morphed into a quasi capitalist system in both Russia, and even more so in China. They now face the same mundane problems of keeping their populations employed as we in the West have been dealing with for a century or more. I think China could be persuaded of the benefits of a peaceful, prosperous, unified Korea as a trading partner bringing real value in place of the formerly useful and currently expensive, ever more out of control barking lapdog that is N. Korea today. Some creative diplomatic suggestions behind the scenes and perhaps the promise of a timed withdrawal of U.S. forces from the peninsula could be beneficial for all concerned as we and the South Koreans alleviate our untenable situation. It is difficult to disagree with the logic of your post with the possible exception of China and Russia, both having some capitalist tendencies, simply do not fully trust the current US administration. One can't blame them or even western democracies, when it has been made very clear .....a USA first mindset exists. If John McCain was 10 - 15 years younger I think he would have been the Republican Party's 1st choice and would have likely garnered a significant majority of the popular vote. His word would have been more readily accepted by both east and western countries. The fact is that much of the world's current leadership do not trust Trump and I believe he is the one flaw in your logic. IF , if , if this is now , we need a strong leader , Mr Trump will make America great again , Book it . |
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Post by stephenswinkler on Dec 14, 2017 17:23:09 GMT -5
Only God is Great! America Sucks! We need a liberal Democratic president or anybody, but Trump. I take Jeb Bush any day over the Trumpet.
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Post by Beachguy on Dec 16, 2017 12:32:12 GMT -5
Only God is Great! America Sucks! We need a liberal Democratic president or anybody, but Trump. I take Jeb Bush any day over the Trumpet. Jeb is a mommies boy , his parents got mad at Mr Trump and also the brother snake Bush that got us into a fake war , sound the trumps , we are the leader of a new better country , book it brothers an sisters .if a person says America sucks then you can bet that person sucks , just look at the person  |
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Post by stephenswinkler on Dec 18, 2017 17:44:12 GMT -5
beachguy, I have experience in debating many different boys, but none of them are as completely dumb as you! Your mommy is not supervising your internet activity. WATCH OUT FOR THOSE PREDATORS! Now, Bush got rid of a tyrant, who violated every United Nations resolutions. Saddam was warned by both Bush and Clinton to behave himself, which he has refused to do. When George W got into the White House, enough was enough. He did not have the patience of his father nor was he willing to endure the long suffering endured by Clinton. As a Democrat, I give praise to Republican Bush for getting a job well done.
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Post by jrchico on Dec 18, 2017 19:08:13 GMT -5
I have finally found a place to buy in Carson City NV. I will be moving out of California as soon as it clears escrow. I will no longer be living in a state populated by idiots like the previous poster.
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Post by Beachguy on Dec 19, 2017 12:16:08 GMT -5
beachguy, I have experience in debating many different boys, but none of them are as completely dumb as you! Your mommy is not supervising your internet activity. WATCH OUT FOR THOSE PREDATORS! Now, Bush got rid of a tyrant, who violated every United Nations resolutions. Saddam was warned by both Bush and Clinton to behave himself, which he has refused to do. When George W got into the White House, enough was enough. He did not have the patience of his father nor was he willing to endure the long suffering endured by Clinton. As a Democrat, I give praise to Republican Bush for getting a job well done. Bush is a lying snake , he started a 100 year holy war to be a hero but he just wanted praise ,they were no threat at all in Saddam's country , bush wanted to blame 911 on him , lies and slander , all that blood and treasure lost is on him . good job is fake news by dummies . |
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Post by Beachguy on Dec 19, 2017 12:20:04 GMT -5
I have finally found a place to buy in Carson City NV. I will be moving out of California as soon as it clears escrow. I will no longer be living in a state populated by idiots like the previous poster. GREAT !!! , leave that sick state by a jerk Mr Brown imo , that state is lost with hateful people , in time it will be flooded to rid the trash and garbage starting with LA . |
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Post by Beachguy on Dec 19, 2017 12:24:40 GMT -5
beachguy, I have experience in debating many different boys, but none of them are as completely dumb as you! Your mommy is not supervising your internet activity. WATCH OUT FOR THOSE PREDATORS! Now, Bush got rid of a tyrant, who violated every United Nations resolutions. Saddam was warned by both Bush and Clinton to behave himself, which he has refused to do. When George W got into the White House, enough was enough. He did not have the patience of his father nor was he willing to endure the long suffering endured by Clinton. As a Democrat, I give praise to Republican Bush for getting a job well done. We do not have the right to invade countries just because we want a change . we are not wise as the wars in Korea and other places have proven , we got kicked out . we win nothing but giving blood an money , book it |
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