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Post by Socal Fan on Jun 3, 2024 7:31:08 GMT -5
Russia is not the same the same country as it was in yesteryear. We were all educated that The Soviet Union and its form of communism was going to steamroll the world and put everyone in slavery. That fear was valid during the Cold War, but times have changed. Moscow, for example, is now known as a much nicer city than any modern US city. That would not be possible if the country was still being ruled under an iron fist. You will be glad to know that Zelensky’s Ukraine has been fighting Russia with AZOV, a neo-Nazi battalion. He haz received an enormous amount of criticism for doing so.. The War on Terrorism taught me everything I needed to know about US media’s coverage of wars: if they say one thing, the opposite is most likely true. The US is burdened by the military industrial complex where victory is not the goal. You have discussed everything except: 1. Putin's invasion and occupation of Crimea. 2. Putin's invasion and occupation of large parts of Eastern Ukraine. 3. Putin's continuing bombing of military and civilian targets all over Ukraine. 4. The estimated hundreds of thousands of military and civilian deaths and injuries so far in Putin's war. 5. The need for the US and all civilized countries to stand against Putin's aggression. If you are unwilling or unable to address the above, then there is no reason to continue this discussion.
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Post by BOGC on Jun 3, 2024 8:09:28 GMT -5
Putin is already successfully expanding Russia. A few years ago, he took the Crimea from Ukraine. When the US and the NATO did nothing about Crimea, Putin invaded Eastern Ukraine last year and occupied large amount of land. If we do nothing, he will just keep going, as Hitler did. All those US military bases that are stationed around Russia did not stop him from taking Crimea and Easter Ukraine. If there is corruption, the solution is not to stop supporting Ukraine but to require that they properly track and account for the aid they are receiving from us. But we are not supporting Ukraine because we love Ukraine. We have been fighting against Russian domination ever since the end of WW2 because it is bad for the world, just as Nazi domination was bad for the world. It is in our own interest to fight Russian (and Nazi) domination. Russia is not the same the same country as it was in yesteryear. We were all educated that The Soviet Union and its form of communism was going to steamroll the world and put everyone in slavery. That fear was valid during the Cold War, but times have changed. Moscow, for example, is now known as a much nicer city than any modern US city. That would not be possible if the country was still being ruled under an iron fist. You will be glad to know that Zelensky’s Ukraine has been fighting Russia with AZOV, a neo-Nazi battalion. He haz received an enormous amount of criticism for doing so.. The War on Terrorism taught me everything I needed to know about US media’s coverage of wars: if they say one thing, the opposite is most likely true. The US is burdened by the military industrial complex where victory is not the goal. What's a conservative doing believing Putin's propaganda? He has people killed that are sufficiently inconvenient, you read the news ever? He is the 21st century's Hitler, no less; or he wants to be, anyway, which is why he says others are, the standard blame the other guy for what you do strategy (that our own traitor Democrats love to use). Putin is really just Xi's sidekick these days, but he's too locked into his fantasy empire mindset to realize that Russia would do better with the West than with China, which has not forgotten that Russia holds a nice chunk of land that was once part of China. I've seen things I can't tell you because if I did, well, you know. Those who read Putin's mail (in a manner of speaking) know what sort he is. The world would be a better place if he and all like-minded successors were dead, preferably with their rotting heads on pikes as a warning to the next ten generations (Babylon 5 reference). The only half decent Russian ruler was Yeltsin, but Putin had some dirt on him and used it to take over. (Gorbachev wanted to be decent, but he couldn't do that and hold the USSR together at the same time.) Domestically they get ever more authoritarian, not very healthy to comment on anything political except to agree with the official line, over there. And you want to talk corrupt? Putin's private palace with both a church and a strip club, just for him. Ukraine is kind of corrupt, but they aspire to join NATO and the EU, which would require them to get that under control, so they have an incentive. Putin thinks every Slav is really a Russian (or should be). Heck, you want to use his argument, Ukraine really ought to be ruling Russia (since the origin of what became Russia was in Kiev, until the power balance shifted to Moscow). Get your head out of your a--. Zelensky is Jewish, no way he's a Nazi. Did he really care if a bunch of skinheads wanted to take on the Russians planted in Ukraine in the USSR days (part of how they controlled everything, just like the PRC putting Han Chinese in Uighur and Tibet, to dilute anyone that might dare have their own mind or culture). Russia's claim to be protecting Russian speakers is BS, all Russian speakers that aspire to be Russian should dang well move back to Russia proper or die, because they're tools of a dictator. Every Russian soldier that Ukrainians kill is Ukrainians doing OUR dirty work (not to mention Europe's, since they're more at risk than we are; the former Warsaw Pact and Baltic states (except Hungary, whose ruler has a stiffie for Putin), once subject to the USSR, all understand the danger that Putinist Russia represents.
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Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist
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Post by Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist on Jun 3, 2024 18:04:46 GMT -5
Russia is not the same the same country as it was in yesteryear. We were all educated that The Soviet Union and its form of communism was going to steamroll the world and put everyone in slavery. That fear was valid during the Cold War, but times have changed. Moscow, for example, is now known as a much nicer city than any modern US city. That would not be possible if the country was still being ruled under an iron fist. You will be glad to know that Zelensky’s Ukraine has been fighting Russia with AZOV, a neo-Nazi battalion. He haz received an enormous amount of criticism for doing so.. The War on Terrorism taught me everything I needed to know about US media’s coverage of wars: if they say one thing, the opposite is most likely true. The US is burdened by the military industrial complex where victory is not the goal. You have discussed everything except: 1. Putin's invasion and occupation of Crimea. 2. Putin's invasion and occupation of large parts of Eastern Ukraine. 3. Putin's continuing bombing of military and civilian targets all over Ukraine. 4. The estimated hundreds of thousands of military and civilian deaths and injuries so far in Putin's war. 5. The need for the US and all civilized countries to stand against Putin's aggression. If you are unwilling or unable to address the above, then there is no reason to continue this discussion. I really could give a rip whether this discussion continues. I'll give my opinion about Russia/Ukraine whether you respond or not.
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Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist
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Post by Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist on Jun 3, 2024 18:06:46 GMT -5
Russia is not the same the same country as it was in yesteryear. We were all educated that The Soviet Union and its form of communism was going to steamroll the world and put everyone in slavery. That fear was valid during the Cold War, but times have changed. Moscow, for example, is now known as a much nicer city than any modern US city. That would not be possible if the country was still being ruled under an iron fist. You will be glad to know that Zelensky’s Ukraine has been fighting Russia with AZOV, a neo-Nazi battalion. He haz received an enormous amount of criticism for doing so.. The War on Terrorism taught me everything I needed to know about US media’s coverage of wars: if they say one thing, the opposite is most likely true. The US is burdened by the military industrial complex where victory is not the goal. What's a conservative doing believing Putin's propaganda? He has people killed that are sufficiently inconvenient, you read the news ever? He is the 21st century's Hitler, no less; or he wants to be, anyway, which is why he says others are, the standard blame the other guy for what you do strategy (that our own traitor Democrats love to use). Putin is really just Xi's sidekick these days, but he's too locked into his fantasy empire mindset to realize that Russia would do better with the West than with China, which has not forgotten that Russia holds a nice chunk of land that was once part of China. I've seen things I can't tell you because if I did, well, you know. Those who read Putin's mail (in a manner of speaking) know what sort he is. The world would be a better place if he and all like-minded successors were dead, preferably with their rotting heads on pikes as a warning to the next ten generations (Babylon 5 reference). The only half decent Russian ruler was Yeltsin, but Putin had some dirt on him and used it to take over. (Gorbachev wanted to be decent, but he couldn't do that and hold the USSR together at the same time.) Domestically they get ever more authoritarian, not very healthy to comment on anything political except to agree with the official line, over there. And you want to talk corrupt? Putin's private palace with both a church and a strip club, just for him. Ukraine is kind of corrupt, but they aspire to join NATO and the EU, which would require them to get that under control, so they have an incentive. Putin thinks every Slav is really a Russian (or should be). Heck, you want to use his argument, Ukraine really ought to be ruling Russia (since the origin of what became Russia was in Kiev, until the power balance shifted to Moscow). Get your head out of your a--. Zelensky is Jewish, no way he's a Nazi. Did he really care if a bunch of skinheads wanted to take on the Russians planted in Ukraine in the USSR days (part of how they controlled everything, just like the PRC putting Han Chinese in Uighur and Tibet, to dilute anyone that might dare have their own mind or culture). Russia's claim to be protecting Russian speakers is BS, all Russian speakers that aspire to be Russian should dang well move back to Russia proper or die, because they're tools of a dictator. Every Russian soldier that Ukrainians kill is Ukrainians doing OUR dirty work (not to mention Europe's, since they're more at risk than we are; the former Warsaw Pact and Baltic states (except Hungary, whose ruler has a stiffie for Putin), once subject to the USSR, all understand the danger that Putinist Russia represents. Please show me where I said Zelensky is a Nazi
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Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist
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Post by Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist on Jun 3, 2024 18:36:13 GMT -5
This could never happen because Zelensky is a Jew
Trudeau and Zelensky give Ukrainian Nazi war veteran standing ovation in Canadian parliament
Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau and Volodymyr Zelensky stood to applaud a man who fought for the Nazi SS during the Second World War after an address in parliament, footage shows.
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Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist
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Post by Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist on Jun 3, 2024 18:47:31 GMT -5
Some but not all of the Ukranian army consists of Neo Nazis. - This fact is acknowledged by Zelensky - it is the AZOV batallion.
Fox News CONFRONTS Zelensky On Ukraine Neo-Nazi Battalion | Breaking Points with Krystal and Saagar
For those that get all of their news from the NYT, well the NYT is a tool of the US government and the military industrial complex. These are the same folks that said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction
NYT Defends AZOV BATTALION Nazis, Says Media Coverage Of Swastika Patch Fuels 'RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA'
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Post by The Real Outhouse on Jun 3, 2024 21:18:41 GMT -5
Some but not all of the Ukranian army consists of Neo Nazis. You seem upset about Ukrainian fighters against Russia, but you are not concerned that Nazi January 6 rioters attacked the US Capitol.
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Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist
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Post by Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist on Jun 3, 2024 22:18:05 GMT -5
Some but not all of the Ukranian army consists of Neo Nazis. You seem upset about Ukrainian fighters against Russia, but you are not concerned that Nazi January 6 rioters attacked the US Capitol. Those protestors should have arrested almost every member of Congress. They didn't go nearly far enough
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Post by The Real Outhouse on Jun 3, 2024 22:25:11 GMT -5
Those protestors should have arrested almost every member of Congress. They didn't go nearly far enough And what are your thoughts about January 6 with regards to Mike Pence?
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Post by donkey on Jun 4, 2024 0:02:47 GMT -5
Those protestors should have arrested almost every member of Congress. They didn't go nearly far enough And what are your thoughts about January 6 with regards to Mike Pence? While there was some violence by some, the vast majority wandered the halls taking selfies. Many were waved in by the police. A few bad actors out of hundreds of thousands there that day isnt surprising.
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Post by BOGC on Jun 4, 2024 0:04:43 GMT -5
Please show me where I said Zelensky is a Nazi You didn't, but you raked up the half truth (at best) about the Azov battalion, which has NOTHING to do with the current situation. lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world"Crucially, in late 2014, Azov was absorbed into the Ukrainian National Guard, allowing greater state oversight, with considerable attention paid to cleansing the ranks of far-right elements, in what should be recognised as an example of successful deradicalisation." "The Azov Regiment has been repeatedly reconstituted; its extremist early leaders such as the odious Andriy Biletsky are long gone, and, more recently, its fearsome, pseudo-pagan regimental emblem has been abandoned."
I have to say, the whole neo-Nazi claim is fake, fake, fake. Killing Russian fighters in Ukraine is a good deed whether or not the old unofficial organization (as opposed to the new, distantly related, official one of similar name) killed them in a manner compliant with the Geneva Convention. So maybe their extremist founder liked lightening bolt symbols that looked a tad like the SS logo, so what?
Putin IS WORSE than Hitler, except in body count. Hitler, although able to sway crowds and occasionally having an effective idea, and genocidally murderous and utterly odious, was self-limiting by being a total nutjob, wasting resources on hollow-earth theories and chasing after paranormal artifacts.
Putin is not quite that crazy. He sees himself as destiny's answer to re-creating the maximal scope and influence of the Russian Empire, someone that would go down in history. Anyone with expansionist tendencies like that should be splattered. Although Putin is far smarter than Hitler ever was, he is blinded by arrogance, yes-men, and never having really been aware of how corrosive the corruption was on the effectiveness of the Russian military. (cheapest tires bought and some general or procurement officer pocketed the difference, and so the advance on Kiev failed; just one example)
All dictators and their likeminded successors and willing supporters and soldiers must be eliminated as soon as it can be done without costing us too much blood and treasure (and yes, we almost always underestimate the cost, and yes, there are doubtless those who profit from war). Evil must be erased from the universe, and everyone more or less hostile to either western capitalists or those aspiring (like Ukraine) to become western capitalists, are a substantial subset of evil.
Look at it another way: Russia could be surrounded by NATO (except where they border Mongolia, China, or North Korea), and it would not actually affect their security in the slightest. There's no desire for conquest left in Europe, and we certainly don't want to rule anything we don't already for the long term. Logistics and Russian winters defeated both Napoleon and Hitler, so all Russia's posturing about how anyone is threatening them is false. The only REAL threat to Russia will be in a decade or more when the PRC no longer finds them to be useful sidekicks (how far they've fallen!).
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Post by colt46 on Jun 4, 2024 0:22:57 GMT -5
Watch President Trumps speech 🎤 for January6! He said to peacefully protest, he didn’t say go storm the Capitol! It’s amazing how the left like putting words in Trump’s mouth!The haters are suffering from Trump derangement syndrome!
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Post by The Real Outhouse on Jun 4, 2024 17:55:30 GMT -5
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Post by The Real Outhouse on Jun 4, 2024 18:04:06 GMT -5
While there was some violence by some, the vast majority wandered the halls taking selfies. Many were waved in by the police. A few bad actors out of hundreds of thousands there that day isnt surprising.
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Post by The Real Outhouse on Jun 4, 2024 18:43:46 GMT -5
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