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Post by msims on Jun 4, 2024 19:11:23 GMT -5
but this is nonsense..especially in Jackie Evancho‘s case..in her kind of singing..in her genres..if you like it or not..you have to know the basics..technique, breath control..voice training..same as an athlete has to train ..needs a coach..Jackie Evancho totally lacks the basics..professionalism when it comes to stage presence..how to do a concert..it still looks always amateurish ..her handling of the musicians..I am pretty sure got 10 times ..100 times the training of Jackie Evancho..she certainly trained months for the tour..with a coach etc. ..and she does not sing CC… Jackie Evancho is still handling all of this like a middle schooler..
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Post by Olivia Rodvancho on Jun 4, 2024 20:59:11 GMT -5
I agree with those comments sims. Olivia has weak pitch control, especially in the belting upper range. So is Jackie, but for different reasons. Jackie belts really well, and pitch is her signature ability, but at regular volume her voice is thin in the upper range, and overall she has shown poor breath control. Both of these artists need coaching to overcome these issues.
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Post by Socal Fan on Jun 4, 2024 21:44:05 GMT -5
I agree with those comments sims. Olivia has weak pitch control, especially in the belting upper range. So is Jackie, but for different reasons. Jackie belts really well, and pitch is her signature ability, but at regular volume her voice is thin in the upper range, and overall she has shown poor breath control. Both of these artists need coaching to overcome these issues. Coaching might improve the singing of Olivia and Jackie but I don't think it would bring in any more fans. Both already have decent voices. Better voices would not improve their popularity.
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Post by BOGC on Jun 4, 2024 21:53:53 GMT -5
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Post by BOGC on Jun 4, 2024 21:57:16 GMT -5
I agree with those comments sims. Olivia has weak pitch control, especially in the belting upper range. So is Jackie, but for different reasons. Jackie belts really well, and pitch is her signature ability, but at regular volume her voice is thin in the upper range, and overall she has shown poor breath control. Both of these artists need coaching to overcome these issues. Coaching might improve the singing of Olivia and Jackie but I don't think it would bring in any more fans. Both already have decent voices. Better voices would not improve their popularity. Except with the obsessive person here that thinks that one isn't real without formal training and/or committing to actual opera. I have nothing against those things, but I have something against an obsession with credentials, since there certainly are people who do rather well without them.
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jun 4, 2024 22:17:17 GMT -5
Coaching might improve the singing of Olivia and Jackie but I don't think it would bring in any more fans. Both already have decent voices. Better voices would not improve their popularity. Except with the obsessive person here that thinks that one isn't real without formal training and/or committing to actual opera. I have nothing against those things, but I have something against an obsession with credentials, since there certainly are people who do rather well without them. It is not about having. credentials..but being taken serious ..no one of her peers takes JE serious..as thousands and thousands are simply better..all you OT fans don‘t matter…first and flr all musicians make music not because of followers, or fane or the money..but because they love what they do..and JE does not seem to love what she does..at she does not invest real work in it. No one in industry..in Broadway etc. will give her a decent job..all of her producers etc. are second raate or third rate guys. There are literally thousands of better trained elementary school, middle school music teachers in the USA…thousands and thousands better trained college even some high school choir singers…high school theatre kids I don‘t know about the USA..but in Germany Jackie Evancho would not even get a place at a music college for becoming a school music teacher…because of the entrance exam
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Post by BOGC on Jun 4, 2024 22:50:05 GMT -5
Except with the obsessive person here that thinks that one isn't real without formal training and/or committing to actual opera. I have nothing against those things, but I have something against an obsession with credentials, since there certainly are people who do rather well without them. It is not about having. credentials..but being taken serious ..no one of her peers takes JE serious..as thousands and thousands are simply better..all you OT fans don‘t matter…first and flr all musicians make music not because of followers, or fane or the money..but because they love what they do..and JE does not seem to love what she does..at she does not invest real work in it. No one in industry..in Broadway etc. will give her a decent job..all of her producers etc. are second raate or third rate guys. There are literally thousands of better trained elementary school, middle school music teachers in the USA…thousands and thousands better trained college even some high school choir singers…high school theatre kids I don‘t know about the USA..but in Germany Jackie Evancho would not even get a place at a music college for becoming a school music teacher…because of the entrance exam She invests lots of work, just doesn't report it to you. She has had coaching on multiple occasions, even if not an extended period of training. She has said over and over that she loves it, notwithstanding the stresses, and doesn't regret it. She sometimes posts bits of her doing something not for directly commercial purposes, but just because she enjoys trying it. She didn't have to do TMS, but it was a learning experience (choreography plus coaching in different styles, with the show paying for the coaching) and an opportunity to be less typecast. Someone probably doesn't persist in trying to get their own songs produced unless they care about what they're doing. Someone probably doesn't persist in doing something for many years (relative to their age so far) unless they care about what they're doing. Anyone who has watched her live, sees that for some songs, she's part of the song, and whether she's singing the song or the song is singing itself through her is not so clear. For others, she's having fun and looking around more and so on. Probably with a very few, she's a bit bored, but that's to be expected when you do something a few hundred times. Socal Fan is partly right, most people don't care if her technique isn't perfect. I can hear it, knowing what to listen to (having as a teenager been in an amateur choir directed by a professional opera singer, who couldn't help point out a few things), but I don't mind, because her tone and excellent pitch and usually gentle persona count more with me than perfect technique alone. Many others, even if with overall better technique, cause me discomfort because while they correct quickly, their pitch is not as accurate. Would she be better if she got help with the breathing issues (particularly)? Yes. Would it make a difference? Probably not, except to purists; which unless she went into real full classical (where the most picky fans are), would not be a significant part of her audience or potential collaborators.
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Post by Socal Fan on Jun 4, 2024 23:12:37 GMT -5
I don‘t know about the USA..but in Germany Jackie Evancho would not even get a place at a music college No American popular musician cares about going to music college. Not Jackie, not Elvis, not the Beatles, not Michael Jackson, not Taylor Swift, not anybody else. That's because music colleges teach music. Anybody can be a musician but Elvis and the others are much more - they are great entertainers. And that is what really matters. It is not about having. credentials..but being taken serious ..no one of her peers takes JE serious..as thousands and thousands are simply betterBeing better will not cause a musician to be taken seriously. Taylor Swift is not taken seriously by her peers because she is better than they are. She is taken seriously because she is more successful than they are - her concerts make hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide. If Jackie grossed hundreds of millions of dollars, she would be taken very seriously too.
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Post by BOGC on Jun 4, 2024 23:21:03 GMT -5
It is not about having. credentials..but being taken serious ..no one of her peers takes JE serious..as thousands and thousands are simply better..all you OT fans don‘t matter…first and flr all musicians make music not because of followers, or fane or the money..but because they love what they do..and JE does not seem to love what she does..at she does not invest real work in it. No one in industry..in Broadway etc. will give her a decent job..all of her producers etc. are second raate or third rate guys. There are literally thousands of better trained elementary school, middle school music teachers in the USA…thousands and thousands better trained college even some high school choir singers…high school theatre kids I don‘t know about the USA..but in Germany Jackie Evancho would not even get a place at a music college for becoming a school music teacher…because of the entrance exam She invests lots of work, just doesn't report it to you. She has had coaching on multiple occasions, even if not an extended period of training. She has said over and over that she loves it, notwithstanding the stresses, and doesn't regret it. She sometimes posts bits of her doing something not for directly commercial purposes, but just because she enjoys trying it. She didn't have to do TMS, but it was a learning experience (choreography plus coaching in different styles, with the show paying for the coaching) and an opportunity to be less typecast. Someone probably doesn't persist in trying to get their own songs produced unless they care about what they're doing. Someone probably doesn't persist in doing something for many years (relative to their age so far) unless they care about what they're doing. Anyone who has watched her live, sees that for some songs, she's part of the song, and whether she's singing the song or the song is singing itself through her is not so clear. For others, she's having fun and looking around more and so on. Probably with a very few, she's a bit bored, but that's to be expected when you do something a few hundred times. I've noticed her barely visible reaction when one violin hit a slightly sour note. So she's definitely paying attention. Socal Fan is partly right, most people don't care if her technique isn't perfect. I can hear it, knowing what to listen to (having as a teenager been in an amateur choir directed by a professional opera singer, who couldn't help point out a few things), but I don't mind, because her tone and excellent pitch and usually gentle persona count more with me than perfect technique alone. Many others, even if with overall better technique, cause me discomfort because while they correct quickly, their pitch is not as accurate. Would she be better if she got help with the breathing issues (particularly)? Yes. Would it make a difference? Probably not, except to purists; which unless she went into real full classical (where the most picky fans are), would not be a significant part of her audience or potential collaborators.
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Post by donkey on Jun 4, 2024 23:29:58 GMT -5
It is not about having. credentials..but being taken serious ..no one of her peers takes JE serious..as thousands and thousands are simply better..all you OT fans don‘t matter…first and flr all musicians make music not because of followers, or fane or the money..but because they love what they do..and JE does not seem to love what she does..at she does not invest real work in it. No one in industry..in Broadway etc. will give her a decent job..all of her producers etc. are second raate or third rate guys. There are literally thousands of better trained elementary school, middle school music teachers in the USA…thousands and thousands better trained college even some high school choir singers…high school theatre kids I don‘t know about the USA..but in Germany Jackie Evancho would not even get a place at a music college for becoming a school music teacher…because of the entrance exam She invests lots of work, just doesn't report it to you. She has had coaching on multiple occasions, even if not an extended period of training. She has said over and over that she loves it, notwithstanding the stresses, and doesn't regret it. She sometimes posts bits of her doing something not for directly commercial purposes, but just because she enjoys trying it. She didn't have to do TMS, but it was a learning experience (choreography plus coaching in different styles, with the show paying for the coaching) and an opportunity to be less typecast. Someone probably doesn't persist in trying to get their own songs produced unless they care about what they're doing. Someone probably doesn't persist in doing something for many years (relative to their age so far) unless they care about what they're doing. Anyone who has watched her live, sees that for some songs, she's part of the song, and whether she's singing the song or the song is singing itself through her is not so clear. For others, she's having fun and looking around more and so on. Probably with a very few, she's a bit bored, but that's to be expected when you do something a few hundred times. Socal Fan is partly right, most people don't care if her technique isn't perfect. I can hear it, knowing what to listen to (having as a teenager been in an amateur choir directed by a professional opera singer, who couldn't help point out a few things), but I don't mind, because her tone and excellent pitch and usually gentle persona count more with me than perfect technique alone. Many others, even if with overall better technique, cause me discomfort because while they correct quickly, their pitch is not as accurate. Would she be better if she got help with the breathing issues (particularly)? Yes. Would it make a difference? Probably not, except to purists; which unless she went into real full classical (where the most picky fans are), would not be a significant part of her audience or potential collaborators. Music history is littered with stars and superstars with little to no vocal training. Elvis, the Beatles, Neil Diamond, Dolly Parton, Ariana Grande, Freddie Mercury, you could go on and on and on. Its not about vocal training much of the time...its about having a pleasant, unique voice and material that people want to hear, and an attractive persona.
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Post by BOGC on Jun 4, 2024 23:54:36 GMT -5
Music history is littered with stars and superstars with little to no vocal training. Elvis, the Beatles, Neil Diamond, Dolly Parton, Ariana Grande, Freddie Mercury, you could go on and on and on. Its not about vocal training much of the time...its about having a pleasant, unique voice and material that people want to hear, and an attractive persona. And the flip side of the same issue (separating expectations from background) is that some rock/pop stars had musical or vocal training or both. Pat Benatar had some opera training. So did someone one wouldn't even think of as a singer (partly because most of what he's sung is in Chinese), Jackie Chan.
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Post by richard on Jun 5, 2024 0:26:26 GMT -5
but this is nonsense..especially in Jackie Evancho‘s case..in her kind of singing..in her genres..if you like it or not..you have to know the basics..technique, breath control..voice training..same as an athlete has to train ..needs a coach..Jackie Evancho totally lacks the basics..professionalism when it comes to stage presence..how to do a concert..it still looks always amateurish ..her handling of the musicians..I am pretty sure got 10 times ..100 times the training of Jackie Evancho..she certainly trained months for the tour..with a coach etc. ..and she does not sing CC… Jackie Evancho is still handling all of this like a middle schooler.. Out of the million of fans supporting Olivia you find a few who say something negative and want us to think they know what they are talking about. The fact is Olivia has had voice training since she was 5 years old. Saying Olivia had 100 times more training than Jackie is an understatement.
But it is good to know you want to compare Olivia to Jackie. Which I intend on doing. But be-warned it is like a rowboat going up against and aircraft carrier.
Lets start with this in Jackie own backyard of NYC she is lucky to get two nights at 54 Below. While Olivia sold out all 4 of her Madison Square Garden concerts.
Unlike Jackie, Olivia sure isn't afraid of people videoing her concerts and posting on youtube.
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What I Mean By Coach
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Post by What I Mean By Coach on Jun 5, 2024 0:52:35 GMT -5
On the JEFC forum, the subject of Jackie getting vocal coaching often morphed into arguments about opera snobs. "She sings just fine. Get your ears checked. She's not an opera singer! It will change her voice!" etc.
Whenever I have suggested coaching, it has nothing to do with opera, theatre, styles, repertoire. I have only ever talked about specific issues that should be addressed, not turning her into someone she's not. A coach can be a one-time thing, like a dental checkup. A qualified and experienced coach can help diagnose and correct/improve things like breathing, support and placement. Jackie will sound like Jackie no matter what. Her OTTs need not lose their sh!t every time someone points out something like not being able to finish a phrase without running out of air. I've seen her many times in concert, and breathing (for one) has been an issue for years that, if improved upon, will make her life much easier.
Personally I think she might have a lingering fear or mistrust of coaching. There have been several clues in the past that suggest that she and Lisa had misconceptions about coaching, or she simply had a crappy one who tried to make her sing operatically or something. In some respects Jackie's choice to sing operatic arias might have played a role in coaches trying to steer her further in that direction. But now that she is an adult and knows what she wants, her musical style is her choice, not a coach's. She simply could benefit from a checkup and a few pointers.
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Post by BOGC on Jun 5, 2024 1:30:37 GMT -5
On the JEFC forum, the subject of Jackie getting vocal coaching often morphed into arguments about opera snobs. "She sings just fine. Get your ears checked. She's not an opera singer! It will change her voice!" etc. Whenever I have suggested coaching, it has nothing to do with opera, theatre, styles, repertoire. I have only ever talked about specific issues that should be addressed, not turning her into someone she's not. A coach can be a one-time thing, like a dental checkup. A qualified and experienced coach can help diagnose and correct/improve things like breathing, support and placement. Jackie will sound like Jackie no matter what. Her OTTs need not lose their sh!t every time someone points out something like not being able to finish a phrase without running out of air. I've seen her many times in concert, and breathing (for one) has been an issue for years that, if improved upon, will make her life much easier. Personally I think she might have a lingering fear or mistrust of coaching. There have been several clues in the past that suggest that she and Lisa had misconceptions about coaching, or she simply had a crappy one who tried to make her sing operatically or something. In some respects Jackie's choice to sing operatic arias might have played a role in coaches trying to steer her further in that direction. But now that she is an adult and knows what she wants, her musical style is her choice, not a coach's. She simply could benefit from a checkup and a few pointers. A coach is preparation for a specific songs, or a troubleshooter. They are not comprehensive training, that's a voice teacher. A classical singer during the performance season may see their coach once a week, both to work on anything weak and to get feedback to ensure their technique remains optimally safe and effective. I'm sure the E's knew the difference soon enough. Yvie Burnett was the AGT coach that had much to do with the difference in the sound between Prelude To A Dream and AGT, let alone Dream With Me. Jackie has absolutely had subsequent coaching, some vocal, some pronunciation (for sung Italian, French, Latin, Japanese; she may know a smattering of Italian, but probably doesn't know more than a polite phrase or two in Japanese). Somewhere along the line she had to have coaching that helped her sound more appropriately different and use different techniques for different genres. TMS provided both vocal and choreography coaching specific to the songs being performed.
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jun 5, 2024 6:36:46 GMT -5
She invests lots of work, just doesn't report it to you. She has had coaching on multiple occasions, even if not an extended period of training. She has said over and over that she loves it, notwithstanding the stresses, and doesn't regret it. She sometimes posts bits of her doing something not for directly commercial purposes, but just because she enjoys trying it. She didn't have to do TMS, but it was a learning experience (choreography plus coaching in different styles, with the show paying for the coaching) and an opportunity to be less typecast. Someone probably doesn't persist in trying to get their own songs produced unless they care about what they're doing. Someone probably doesn't persist in doing something for many years (relative to their age so far) unless they care about what they're doing. Anyone who has watched her live, sees that for some songs, she's part of the song, and whether she's singing the song or the song is singing itself through her is not so clear. For others, she's having fun and looking around more and so on. Probably with a very few, she's a bit bored, but that's to be expected when you do something a few hundred times. Socal Fan is partly right, most people don't care if her technique isn't perfect. I can hear it, knowing what to listen to (having as a teenager been in an amateur choir directed by a professional opera singer, who couldn't help point out a few things), but I don't mind, because her tone and excellent pitch and usually gentle persona count more with me than perfect technique alone. Many others, even if with overall better technique, cause me discomfort because while they correct quickly, their pitch is not as accurate. Would she be better if she got help with the breathing issues (particularly)? Yes. Would it make a difference? Probably not, except to purists; which unless she went into real full classical (where the most picky fans are), would not be a significant part of her audience or potential collaborators. Music history is littered with stars and superstars with little to no vocal training. Elvis, the Beatles, Neil Diamond, Dolly Parton, Ariana Grande, Freddie Mercury, you could go on and on and on. Its not about vocal training much of the time...its about having a pleasant, unique voice and material that people want to hear, and an attractive persona. wrong .. Ariana Grande has Eric Vetro as a Vocal Coach for 16 years now www.instagram.com/arianagrande/reel/CVQaelJJWUc/
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