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Post by eulenspiegel on Jun 5, 2024 6:38:18 GMT -5
Music history is littered with stars and superstars with little to no vocal training. Elvis, the Beatles, Neil Diamond, Dolly Parton, Ariana Grande, Freddie Mercury, you could go on and on and on. Its not about vocal training much of the time...its about having a pleasant, unique voice and material that people want to hear, and an attractive persona. wrong .. Ariana Grande has Eric Vetro as a Vocal Coach for 16 years now www.instagram.com/arianagrande/reel/CVQaelJJWUc/btw. he literally coaches the whole Champions League ericvetro.com
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Post by BOGC on Jun 5, 2024 7:20:31 GMT -5
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Post by richard on Jun 5, 2024 11:15:06 GMT -5
Re: Olivia Rodrigo When you sell out your concert and you still have 80,000 people trying to get tickets, she doesn't need to do anything different.
Olivia is still new at the singing game. I predict that she will over take Billie Eilish in a couple of years as the top Gen-Z singer because I think she has more tools to use.
Billie Eilish most of her song are written by her brother where as Olivia writes her own, though she does have some help.
In my opinion I think Olivia is better looking and has a better physique and has even more stage presence than Billie, Olivia seems to have more stage energy also.
But coming in second to Billie as the top Gen-Z singer is no small accomplishment and not a bad spot to be in.
Jackie on the other hand doesn't seem to know how to use the tools she has available to her and that is because of her management.
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Post by donkey on Jun 5, 2024 11:27:03 GMT -5
Music history is littered with stars and superstars with little to no vocal training. Elvis, the Beatles, Neil Diamond, Dolly Parton, Ariana Grande, Freddie Mercury, you could go on and on and on. Its not about vocal training much of the time...its about having a pleasant, unique voice and material that people want to hear, and an attractive persona. wrong .. Ariana Grande has Eric Vetro as a Vocal Coach for 16 years now www.instagram.com/arianagrande/reel/CVQaelJJWUc/The source I looked up for her might have been incorrect, but Ariana aside, it's irrelevant to my point...there are countless examples and I named a mere handful, so you haven't disputed my point at all. lol Let's add Kurt Cobain and Stevie Wonder to replace her, shall we?
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Post by 1 Guest on Jun 5, 2024 11:36:38 GMT -5
The source I looked up for her might have been incorrect, but Ariana aside, it's irrelevant to my point...there are countless examples and I named a mere handful, so you haven't disputed my point at all. lol Even if she did become famous before she had training, she then hired a vocal coach and has been working with him for 16 years because she wanted to improve and be the best that she can be for her career and for the fans who pay to hear her sing. And she's a very, very good singer.
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Post by donkey on Jun 5, 2024 11:42:44 GMT -5
The source I looked up for her might have been incorrect, but Ariana aside, it's irrelevant to my point...there are countless examples and I named a mere handful, so you haven't disputed my point at all. lol Even if she did become famous before she had training, she then hired a vocal coach and has been working with him for 16 years because she wanted to improve and be the best that she can be for her career and for the fans who pay to hear her sing. And she's a very, very good singer. Not saying professional vocal training is bad of course. It's made a lot of really good singers into great singers. Only point is that is not required to achieve success in the entertainment industry as a singer. Jackie's natural ability was able to bring her an enormous amount of success and a fantastic career where she sang with a number of great singers. So she is proof of it herself. Her struggling career now has nothing to do with lack of training, and everything to do with growing up, no longer being the recognizable kid with the big voice, and the fan base for that dying off over time.
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Post by richard on Jun 5, 2024 11:42:47 GMT -5
I think a better question to ask about singing coaches or teachers is. Can anyone name a professional artist that decided to get a singing coach or teacher that turned their career around. Most seem to have had training when they were young that enabled them to become a professional singer. Now getting different management has helped many artist.
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Post by donkey on Jun 5, 2024 11:47:57 GMT -5
I think a better question to ask about singing coaches or teachers is. Can anyone name a professional artist that decided to get a singing coach or teacher that turned their career around. Most seem to have had training when they were young that enabled them to become a professional singer. Now getting different management has helped many artist. Right...Jackie's mostly untrained voice got her fame already, and she sang with some highly skilled singers in her career and held her own just fine. So that is evidence just on its own that you dont need to be highly trained to be successful as a singer. She did it. The question now is, now that her career has run its course and she has grown up, is lacking professional vocal training what ended her career or what is currently holding her back. I would content no, not likely. Mabye if she wanted to be like an opera singer, where technical proficiency might be required for success that could be an issue. But she doesn't want to do that anyway.
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Post by richard on Jun 5, 2024 12:43:24 GMT -5
I think a better question to ask about singing coaches or teachers is. Can anyone name a professional artist that decided to get a singing coach or teacher that turned their career around. Most seem to have had training when they were young that enabled them to become a professional singer. Now getting different management has helped many artist. Right...Jackie's mostly untrained voice got her fame already, and she sang with some highly skilled singers in her career and held her own just fine. So that is evidence just on its own that you dont need to be highly trained to be successful as a singer. She did it. The question now is, now that her career has run its course and she has grown up, is lacking professional vocal training what ended her career or what is currently holding her back. I would content no, not likely. Mabye if she wanted to be like an opera singer, where technical proficiency might be required for success that could be an issue. But she doesn't want to do that anyway. Every one here should know what happened to Jackie. The same thing would have happened to Olivia, Jenna Ortega, Millie Cyrus, Britney Spears and many many others, if they stayed in their young acting roles to long. How much longer could Olivia have played a high school musical student. She is 21 and sooner are later people will start to say she doesn't look like any high school student I ever known.
Jackie's roll as the cute little opera singer is way past. That is how people think of her and that is what her management team tried to portray over the years and why Jackie kept trying to stay a ten year old. She even said so much in her interview.
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Post by Unrelated on Jun 5, 2024 12:43:56 GMT -5
I think a better question to ask about singing coaches or teachers is. Can anyone name a professional artist that decided to get a singing coach or teacher that turned their career around. Most seem to have had training when they were young that enabled them to become a professional singer. Now getting different management has helped many artist. Right...Jackie's mostly untrained voice got her fame already, and she sang with some highly skilled singers in her career and held her own just fine. So that is evidence just on its own that you dont need to be highly trained to be successful as a singer. She did it. The question now is, now that her career has run its course and she has grown up, is lacking professional vocal training what ended her career or what is currently holding her back. I would content no, not likely. Mabye if she wanted to be like an opera singer, where technical proficiency might be required for success that could be an issue. But she doesn't want to do that anyway. These questions are unrelated to the suggestion of vocal coaching. Suggesting Jackie could benefit from vocal coaching is not suggesting anything will come of it career wise. They have nothing to do with each other. Separate the subject of vocal coaching from the rise or fall of Jackie's career. She could benefit from vocal coaching, period. What she does with her career is another subject entirely. Singing fundamentals (like breath control) has nothing to do with the style of music you sing, or whether it is more important for one type of singing than another, or whether an audience can hear the difference or not, or whether a singer's voice is pleasing to the ear.
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Post by donkey on Jun 5, 2024 13:12:54 GMT -5
Right...Jackie's mostly untrained voice got her fame already, and she sang with some highly skilled singers in her career and held her own just fine. So that is evidence just on its own that you dont need to be highly trained to be successful as a singer. She did it. The question now is, now that her career has run its course and she has grown up, is lacking professional vocal training what ended her career or what is currently holding her back. I would content no, not likely. Mabye if she wanted to be like an opera singer, where technical proficiency might be required for success that could be an issue. But she doesn't want to do that anyway. These questions are unrelated to the suggestion of vocal coaching. Suggesting Jackie could benefit from vocal coaching is not suggesting anything will come of it career wise. They have nothing to do with each other. Separate the subject of vocal coaching from the rise or fall of Jackie's career. She could benefit from vocal coaching, period. What she does with her career is another subject entirely. Singing fundamentals (like breath control) has nothing to do with the style of music you sing, or whether it is more important for one type of singing than another, or whether an audience can hear the difference or not, or whether a singer's voice is pleasing to the ear. Entirely nonsensical comments when considering the context in which the point that was being made and has been made and implied endlessly by the German poster. His insinuation is that she isn't going anywhere and isn't any good due at least in part to lack of professional vocal training. The counter point to that is she was good, is good, and that her lack of vocal training has nothing to do with her career trajectory. YOU may not want to discuss it within that context, but that is the context in which the discussion has been occurring. Also incorrect that genre is irrelevant to needing classical vocal training...opera is a different animal, just as a classical piano concert is a different animal than a rock band keyboard player playing in a band. While it may be true that vocal training might help any singer with his/her technique, Jackie has zero interest in that it would seem and I contend it would make little to no difference in her current professional goals, which are to gain an alt-pop audience. There is a certain amount of classical vocal training snobbery reflected by a select minority on this board, and to be honest, I find it a bit nauseating. Most fans haven't the faintest idea if any given singer they enjoy is using the "technically correct, or ideal technique" while they are singing, and just couldn't care less to know whether they are or not. lol
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Post by The Jackinator on Jun 5, 2024 15:57:04 GMT -5
These questions are unrelated to the suggestion of vocal coaching. Suggesting Jackie could benefit from vocal coaching is not suggesting anything will come of it career wise. They have nothing to do with each other. Separate the subject of vocal coaching from the rise or fall of Jackie's career. She could benefit from vocal coaching, period. What she does with her career is another subject entirely. Singing fundamentals (like breath control) has nothing to do with the style of music you sing, or whether it is more important for one type of singing than another, or whether an audience can hear the difference or not, or whether a singer's voice is pleasing to the ear. Entirely nonsensical comments when considering the context in which the point that was being made and has been made and implied endlessly by the German poster. His insinuation is that she isn't going anywhere and isn't any good due at least in part to lack of professional vocal training. The counter point to that is she was good, is good, and that her lack of vocal training has nothing to do with her career trajectory. YOU may not want to discuss it within that context, but that is the context in which the discussion has been occurring. Also incorrect that genre is irrelevant to needing classical vocal training...opera is a different animal, just as a classical piano concert is a different animal than a rock band keyboard player playing in a band. While it may be true that vocal training might help any singer with his/her technique, Jackie has zero interest in that it would seem and I contend it would make little to no difference in her current professional goals, which are to gain an alt-pop audience. There is a certain amount of classical vocal training snobbery reflected by a select minority on this board, and to be honest, I find it a bit nauseating. Most fans haven't the faintest idea if any given singer they enjoy is using the "technically correct, or ideal technique" while they are singing, and just couldn't care less to know whether they are or not. lol Yeah, the arrogance of that certain member is quite nauseating. If Jackie wanted to pursue a career in traditional classic singing, she would need the type of vocal training that he continues to whine about. Some vocal training might help her to perform better in pop. Seems like she's somewhat resistant to the idea. If I remember correctly, Jackie and Lisa concluded that a coach she had very early on was ruining her voice. (someone correct me here if needed)
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Post by 1 Guest on Jun 5, 2024 16:16:14 GMT -5
These questions are unrelated to the suggestion of vocal coaching. Suggesting Jackie could benefit from vocal coaching is not suggesting anything will come of it career wise. They have nothing to do with each other. Separate the subject of vocal coaching from the rise or fall of Jackie's career. She could benefit from vocal coaching, period. What she does with her career is another subject entirely. Singing fundamentals (like breath control) has nothing to do with the style of music you sing, or whether it is more important for one type of singing than another, or whether an audience can hear the difference or not, or whether a singer's voice is pleasing to the ear. Entirely nonsensical comments when considering the context in which the point that was being made and has been made and implied endlessly by the German poster. His insinuation is that she isn't going anywhere and isn't any good due at least in part to lack of professional vocal training. The counter point to that is she was good, is good, and that her lack of vocal training has nothing to do with her career trajectory. YOU may not want to discuss it within that context, but that is the context in which the discussion has been occurring. Also incorrect that genre is irrelevant to needing classical vocal training...opera is a different animal, just as a classical piano concert is a different animal than a rock band keyboard player playing in a band. While it may be true that vocal training might help any singer with his/her technique, Jackie has zero interest in that it would seem and I contend it would make little to no difference in her current professional goals, which are to gain an alt-pop audience. There is a certain amount of classical vocal training snobbery reflected by a select minority on this board, and to be honest, I find it a bit nauseating. Most fans haven't the faintest idea if any given singer they enjoy is using the "technically correct, or ideal technique" while they are singing, and just couldn't care less to know whether they are or not. lol Jackie has had difficulty with 2 issues from the beginning, poor breath control and poor enunciation, and those issues still exist 14 years later. Often, when a new track is released, we sit here and try to figure out the lyrics, and that's with the professional recordings. She's known those 2 criticisms all along and has never remedied them, which is odd from someone who thought she had to be perfect.
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Post by richard on Jun 5, 2024 16:54:42 GMT -5
Yeah, the arrogance of that certain member is quite nauseating. If Jackie wanted to pursue a career in traditional classic singing, she would need the type of vocal training that he continues to whine about. Some vocal training might help her to perform better in pop. Seems like she's somewhat resistant to the idea. If I remember correctly, Jackie and Lisa concluded that a coach she had very early on was ruining her voice. (someone correct me here if needed) Rightly or Wrongly Lisa's argument against training Jackie was that they wanted Jackie to sound organic not like all the other trained artist. She may have had a good point we will never know. But more than likely training really has an affect while you are young. Trying to change the way you physically do something at 24 years old will be much harder.
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Post by The Jackinator on Jun 5, 2024 17:09:34 GMT -5
Except with the obsessive person here that thinks that one isn't real without formal training and/or committing to actual opera. I have nothing against those things, but I have something against an obsession with credentials, since there certainly are people who do rather well without them. It is not about having. credentials..but being taken serious ..no one of her peers takes JE serious..as thousands and thousands are simply better..all you OT fans don‘t matter…first and flr all musicians make music not because of followers, or fane or the money..but because they love what they do..and JE does not seem to love what she does..at she does not invest real work in it. No one in industry..in Broadway etc. will give her a decent job..all of her producers etc. are second raate or third rate guys. There are literally thousands of better trained elementary school, middle school music teachers in the USA…thousands and thousands better trained college even some high school choir singers…high school theatre kids I don‘t know about the USA..but in Germany Jackie Evancho would not even get a place at a music college for becoming a school music teacher…because of the entrance exam Most of her fans would rather she stick with singing because of her exceptional voice. Teaching music would be a waste of her talent
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