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Post by donkey on Jul 26, 2024 8:52:16 GMT -5
The only argument pro-choice can legitimately make is that at a certain point, a fetus isn't a person with legal rights yet. Then goes the debate about where to draw the line on when abortions should be allowed vs not allowed...somewhere between conception and birth. i for one, and the vast majority of the population, believe that the third trimester is a non-starter. 6-9 months is pretty much formed into a human being. At that point, we are no longer just talking about the woman's body. There are two people's welfare at play at that point. Prior to 6 months, to me there is reasonable debate about where the line should be drawn. I think 15 weeks probably a reasonable line. "at a certain point, a fetus isn't a person with legal rights yet"Exactly. Only human beings have legal rights. So where to draw the line between "human" and "pre-human"? I believe that one cannot be considered a "human being" if one must to be attached to another human being in order to survive. The fetus is incapable of independent life prior to the 3rd trimester. So I believe abortion is acceptable in the 1st and 2nd trimesters and unacceptable in the 3rd trimester. Which was the rule in Roe v Wade. However, since Roe v Wade was repealed, many states have completely banned abortions in most situations. Such states include TX, OK, MO, AR, MS, LA, AL, TN, KY, WV, IN, ND, SD and ID. That is a large part of the US population and I feel sad for the women in those states. Oh, great, so you disagree with third trimester abortions. So, you are pretty mainstream in your views on the subject. All the SCOTUS decision did was kick the choice on where to draw that line down to the states, which is closer to the will of the people. I think most states have not banned abortion in the case of rape or incest or the life of the mother, which to me are the only truly necessary things to allow. I personally don't agree with no abortions from the point of conception. But also am against third trimester, and really even late 2nd trimester abortions. Many think a 15 week line is an acceptable line, and that sounds reasonable to me. Exceptions in the case or rape or incest or the life of the mother are no brainers to me. These are majority held views.
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Post by 1 Guest on Jul 26, 2024 9:13:31 GMT -5
"at a certain point, a fetus isn't a person with legal rights yet"Exactly. Only human beings have legal rights. So where to draw the line between "human" and "pre-human"? I believe that one cannot be considered a "human being" if one must to be attached to another human being in order to survive. The fetus is incapable of independent life prior to the 3rd trimester. So I believe abortion is acceptable in the 1st and 2nd trimesters and unacceptable in the 3rd trimester. Which was the rule in Roe v Wade. However, since Roe v Wade was repealed, many states have completely banned abortions in most situations. Such states include TX, OK, MO, AR, MS, LA, AL, TN, KY, WV, IN, ND, SD and ID. That is a large part of the US population and I feel sad for the women in those states. Oh, great, so you disagree with third trimester abortions. So, you are pretty mainstream in your views on the subject. All the SCOTUS decision did was kick the choice on where to draw that line down to the states, which is closer to the will of the people. I think most states have not banned abortion in the case of rape or incest or the life of the mother, which to me are the only truly necessary things to allow. I personally don't agree with no abortions from the point of conception. But also am against third trimester, and really even late 2nd trimester abortions. Many think a 15 week line is an acceptable line, and that sounds reasonable to me. Exceptions in the case or rape or incest or the life of the mother are no brainers to me. These are majority held views. In the case of rape, you go to the ER or call you Dr. for the morning after pill. Done. Or at the very least take a pregnancy test within a couple of weeks of the rape, you'll know early if your pregnant and can have a DNC. There's no reason to wait until later in the pregnancy to abort the baby. That goes for any pregnancy, you can know within days if your pregnant or not and take care of it then. Again, no reason to wait until the baby is developing to abort it. Anyone who decides to abort later in the pregnancy is a monster. Aside from rape, use birth control that's readily available and if you don't have any, keep your legs together until you get some. Don't rely on abortion as a means of birth control.
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Post by colt46 on Jul 26, 2024 9:20:14 GMT -5
I agree with your post 1 Guest, it’s only common sense!
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jul 26, 2024 9:21:35 GMT -5
Oh, great, so you disagree with third trimester abortions. So, you are pretty mainstream in your views on the subject. All the SCOTUS decision did was kick the choice on where to draw that line down to the states, which is closer to the will of the people. I think most states have not banned abortion in the case of rape or incest or the life of the mother, which to me are the only truly necessary things to allow. I personally don't agree with no abortions from the point of conception. But also am against third trimester, and really even late 2nd trimester abortions. Many think a 15 week line is an acceptable line, and that sounds reasonable to me. Exceptions in the case or rape or incest or the life of the mother are no brainers to me. These are majority held views. In the case of rape, you go to the ER or call you Dr. for the morning after pill. Done. Or at the very least take a pregnancy test within a couple of weeks of the rape, you'll know early if your pregnant and can have a DNC. There's no reason to wait until later in the pregnancy to abort the baby. That goes for any pregnancy, you can know within days if your pregnant or not and take care of it then. Again, no reason to wait until the baby is developing to abort it. Anyone who decides to abort later in the pregnancy is a monster. Aside from rape, use birth control that's readily available and if you don't have any, keep your legs together until you get some. Don't rely on abortion as a means of birth control. You really cannot understand the trauma after rape..and sometimes women even don‘t know their pregnant until birth. Males discussing female bodies and their feelings is a no go. Btw. Germany is relatively strict.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_GermanyCurrently, the rules for abortions are laid down in Section 218 of the Criminal Code . An abortion is generally illegal in Germany. However, it is not punishable if it is carried out in the first twelve weeks of pregnancy. The pregnant woman must also seek advice beforehand. Abortion is expressly not illegal after rape or if there is a risk to the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant woman. although experts asked for a change www-deutschlandfunk-de.translate.goog/abtreibung-schwangerschaftsabbruch-paragraph-218-100.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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Post by 1 Guest on Jul 26, 2024 9:27:51 GMT -5
In the case of rape, you go to the ER or call you Dr. for the morning after pill. Done. Or at the very least take a pregnancy test within a couple of weeks of the rape, you'll know early if your pregnant and can have a DNC. There's no reason to wait until later in the pregnancy to abort the baby. That goes for any pregnancy, you can know within days if your pregnant or not and take care of it then. Again, no reason to wait until the baby is developing to abort it. Anyone who decides to abort later in the pregnancy is a monster. Aside from rape, use birth control that's readily available and if you don't have any, keep your legs together until you get some. Don't rely on abortion as a means of birth control. You really cannot understand the trauma after rape..and sometimes women even don‘t know their pregnant until birth. Males discussing female bodies and their feelings is a no go. Btw. Germany is relatively strict.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_GermanyCurrently, the rules for abortions are laid down in Section 218 of the Criminal Code . An abortion is generally illegal in Germany. However, it is not punishable if it is carried out in the first twelve weeks of pregnancy. The pregnant woman must also seek advice beforehand. Abortion is expressly not illegal after rape or if there is a risk to the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant woman. although experts asked for a change www-deutschlandfunk-de.translate.goog/abtreibung-schwangerschaftsabbruch-paragraph-218-100.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wappI'm not a male, but you are. Why are you discussing female bodies? According to what you're written, Germany has the right idea when it comes to abortion.
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jul 26, 2024 9:30:00 GMT -5
In the case of rape, you go to the ER or call you Dr. for the morning after pill. Done. Or at the very least take a pregnancy test within a couple of weeks of the rape, you'll know early if your pregnant and can have a DNC. There's no reason to wait until later in the pregnancy to abort the baby. That goes for any pregnancy, you can know within days if your pregnant or not and take care of it then. Again, no reason to wait until the baby is developing to abort it. Anyone who decides to abort later in the pregnancy is a monster. Aside from rape, use birth control that's readily available and if you don't have any, keep your legs together until you get some. Don't rely on abortion as a means of birth control. You really cannot understand the trauma after rape..and sometimes women even don‘t know their pregnant until birth. Males discussing female bodies and their feelings is a no go. Btw. Germany is relatively strict.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_GermanyCurrently, the rules for abortions are laid down in Section 218 of the Criminal Code . An abortion is generally illegal in Germany. However, it is not punishable if it is carried out in the first twelve weeks of pregnancy. The pregnant woman must also seek advice beforehand. Abortion is expressly not illegal after rape or if there is a risk to the life or physical or mental health of the pregnant woman. although experts asked for a change www-deutschlandfunk-de.translate.goog/abtreibung-schwangerschaftsabbruch-paragraph-218-100.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wappbtw. despite having kind of the most liberal abortion law en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_Netherlandskind of the lowest world wide rate of abortion The number of abortions has been relatively stable in the 21st century, around 28,000 per year.[8] As of 2010, the abortion rate was 9.7 abortions per 1000 women aged 15–44 years (0.97%), one of the lowest in the world.[9] 1 in 5 women in the Netherlands has experience with an unwanted pregnancy, however, only 13.5% of those unwanted pregnancies end with an abortion.[10] The real problem in the USA are the puritanism..home schooling..and therefore often no real sexual education.. although there is proof…that the earlier sexual education..the less unwanted pregnancies..
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Post by 1 Guest on Jul 26, 2024 9:30:53 GMT -5
He did not have to flush money down the drain to become a world class scientist www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Efferth_ThomasYou are all wasting the real talented people in the USA…by this ridiculous tuitions. Tuition free universities do not exist anywhere. The tuition is paid by all of the citizens rather than by the people who will benefit from the education, thus earning a lot more money.
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Post by donkey on Jul 26, 2024 9:33:38 GMT -5
I'm not a male, but you are. Why are you discussing female bodies? According to what you're written, Germany has the right idea when it comes to abortion. To be fair, you don't have to be a female to have a legitimate opinion on the morality of having an abortion or where to draw the line on when it's acceptable vs unacceptable. When you are talking about a fetus, its no longer just a conversation about a woman's body. Someone else is now involved. Germany seems pretty close to the U.S. in terms of mainstream views on abortion...allow abortions through the 15th week (approx). Eulen definitely seems a little more radical though. lol
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jul 26, 2024 9:41:42 GMT -5
He did not have to flush money down the drain to become a world class scientist www.ae-info.org/ae/Member/Efferth_ThomasYou are all wasting the real talented people in the USA…by this ridiculous tuitions. Tuition free universities do not exist anywhere. The tuition is paid by all of the citizens rather than by the people who will benefit from the education, thus earning a lot more money. Yes it is paid by citizens..through taxes..but it is an investment in a working society..full of educated people… an investment into future..and it worked very well the last 100 years.. Most of the things you use in daily life..things that save your asses.. were invented by German scientists. But just look at sport..at soccer.. the MLS, college teams..are a joke..because getting into college is not about talent..but having rich parents which are financing your coaches through childhood..real talented players are not discovered.. Even in basketball you lose track compared to the rest of the world..now hoping to save your..with grandpas at the olympics. More and more players in the NBA learned the game in their home county..where everything is free..is paid by club..perhaps paying 80 Euros club fee per year
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Post by colt46 on Jul 26, 2024 9:46:44 GMT -5
Why should Americans who don’t go to College or the ones who do who payed their tuition, pay 💰 for those who go to college! People work their way through college at that is what my generation did today ,young people want things given to them with no cost on their part!
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Post by 1 Guest on Jul 26, 2024 10:18:54 GMT -5
Tuition free universities do not exist anywhere. The tuition is paid by all of the citizens rather than by the people who will benefit from the education, thus earning a lot more money. Yes it is paid by citizens..through taxes..but it is an investment in a working society..full of educated people… an investment into future..and it worked very well the last 100 years.. Most of the things you use in daily life..things that save your asses.. were invented by German scientists. But just look at sport..at soccer.. the MLS, college teams..are a joke..because getting into college is not about talent..but having rich parents which are financing your coaches through childhood..real talented players are not discovered.. Even in basketball you lose track compared to the rest of the world..now hoping to save your..with grandpas at the olympics. More and more players in the NBA learned the game in their home county..where everything is free..is paid by club..perhaps paying 80 Euros club fee per year Full of educated people? So everyone in Germany can go to college if they want to go? You have enough colleges to handle all of those people? It's true that rich people here can send their children to college, they pay their own way, but that's better than sponging off of the taxpayers. And those who have good grades can get scholarships that are paid for by donors and alumni. Others take out loans and like any loan, they're responsible to pay them off. A garbage collector should not be paying off the loans of doctors, lawyers and rocket scientists. As far as sports goes, I don't follow them and I think the salaries athletes get are ludicrous, but if fans want to pay those obsene ticket prices that's their choice, it's their money.
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Post by donkey on Jul 26, 2024 10:31:16 GMT -5
Why should Americans who don’t go to College or the ones who do who payed their tuition, pay 💰 for those who go to college! People work their way through college at that is what my generation did today ,young people want things given to them with no cost on their part! While that is all true and I agree with you Colt, something else that is true is that college education has skyrocketed in price from when we went to school. So it's harder than it was for us. I worked full time and paid for my tuition my last two years. No way I would afford to do that today. Add to that the high cost of everything today, esp food/rent/insurance, and it's crazy. If you get a student loan, you'd better get your degree in something that there is demand for that makes really good money so you can pay it back. lol
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Post by eulenspiegel on Jul 26, 2024 10:54:10 GMT -5
Yes it is paid by citizens..through taxes..but it is an investment in a working society..full of educated people… an investment into future..and it worked very well the last 100 years.. Most of the things you use in daily life..things that save your asses.. were invented by German scientists. But just look at sport..at soccer.. the MLS, college teams..are a joke..because getting into college is not about talent..but having rich parents which are financing your coaches through childhood..real talented players are not discovered.. Even in basketball you lose track compared to the rest of the world..now hoping to save your..with grandpas at the olympics. More and more players in the NBA learned the game in their home county..where everything is free..is paid by club..perhaps paying 80 Euros club fee per year Full of educated people? So everyone in Germany can go to college if they want to go? You have enough colleges to handle all of those people? It's true that rich people here can send their children to college, they pay their own way, but that's better than sponging off of the taxpayers. And those who have good grades can get scholarships that are paid for by donors and alumni. Others take out loans and like any loan, they're responsible to pay them off. A garbage collector should not be paying off the loans of doctors, lawyers and rocket scientists. As far as sports goes, I don't follow them and I think the salaries athletes get are ludicrous, but if fans want to pay those obsene ticket prices that's their choice, it's their money. Yes, everyone with Abitur or Fachholschulreife can go to university..if he/she wants www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bildung-Forschung-Kultur/Hochschulen/Tabellen/studierende-insgesamt-bundeslaender.htmlwww.studis-online.de/hochschulen/universitaeten/staatlich/
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Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist
Guest
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Post by Rightwing Conspiracy Theorist on Jul 26, 2024 11:51:08 GMT -5
in the end..it is all about a total corrupt judge..hoping to get some…you asked me yesterday why Trump etc. are a thread for US democracy…here you see it… Eulenspiegel, from what I gather, the concept of democracy is very important to you and to the Democratic party as a whole. The concept of democracy is the ability for voters to have the right to choose their leaders. Even though there was a lot of shady business going on in the Democratic party primaries in 2016 (Bernie Sanders) and 2024 (everyone but Biden), on the surface, voters "chose" Clinton and Biden respectively in those two primary election cycles. Now that Biden has pulled himself out of the general election, is it democratic that Kamala Harris is eligible to be a final presidential candidate when she was polling next to 0% support as the Democrat nominee? I gather democracy isn't important to you after all
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Post by colt46 on Jul 26, 2024 12:18:38 GMT -5
I think eulenspiegel prefers the China 🇨🇳 form of government!
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