|
|
Post by msims on Oct 5, 2023 18:22:33 GMT -5
 Its posturing as usual as if you got the golden ticket like Charlie in the Chocolate Factory:  YOU DO NOT HAVE THE NUMBERS for:
CITY WINERIES: what they all actually made those nights bev, food, and ticket sales combined, as well as how much she was contracted to be paid each gig. COT we know the stream totals but the cumulative sales for pure albums as well as equivalents, only the label has those and it was enough for them to go forward and even sign a more expensive act in Sara Evans and give her the creative control (I saw the zoom, btw where were you, chicken?) and she clearly can release when she wants, that is control she never had prior. An Artists Dream. Only a fool would conclude that was a failure even without the numbers. BME ALL TRACK SALES, ALL STREAM COUNTS, INCLUDING AIRPLAY.and your argument is the equivalent of just because people consume fast food (because some psychotic who plays hide and seek games and cant sit on just one account says so and a bunch of dumb kids do so), some people may prefer Ruth's Chris.  |
|
|
|
Post by Guest 4 on Oct 5, 2023 18:24:14 GMT -5
Another way to look at joining a group is think of it as a collaboration. Let's say Greg Camp and Jackie talk about forming a group. Both of these people have connections aplenty that could result in a very good lineup of pro musicians. They used to call these collaborations "supergroups" but it's really just a collaboration. One album sometimes. I could list a bunch but most of you could name some. Something like that would be a feather in Jackie's cap, and allow both of them to amplify their standing. This idea rarely fails, but yes, I could name a few that bombed. The majority of them do well though.
|
|
|
|
Post by msims on Oct 5, 2023 18:27:19 GMT -5
guest 4 If she has a popularity problem, then why does her name keep popping up in discussions here, on reddit under the sub reddits for AGT and TMS (she hasnt been on those shows in years and yet shes still mentioned), as well as twitter. If she wasnt popular then there would be nothing.
|
|
|
|
Post by donkey on Oct 5, 2023 18:35:18 GMT -5
guest 4 If she has a popularity problem, then why does her name keep popping up in discussions here, on reddit under the sub reddits for AGT and TMS (she hasnt been on those shows in years and yet shes still mentioned), as well as twitter. If she wasnt popular then there would be nothing. We are talking about VERY small numbers of people involved in these conversations. Jackie's current base is very small, but very passionate. lol |
|
|
|
Post by BOGC on Oct 5, 2023 18:48:36 GMT -5
Without necessarily agreeing entirely, an interesting take IMO. I meant that sincerely. I'm a band person. Think of all the bands that have a name that is not the female lead singer. I took this list from the first website about female leads I found (ones with singer names crossed out). Most of them have female singers we're well familiar with: 1. The Yeah Yeah Yeahs 2. Paramore 3. ABBA 4. Blondie 5. Sonny & Cher6. The Pretty Reckless 7. The Pretenders 8. The Go-Gos 9. Flyleaf 10. Evanescence 11. Hey Monday 12. No Doubt 13. Halestorm 14. The Distillers 15. Vixen 16. Alabama Shakes 17. Gladys Knight & The Pips18. The Shirelles 19. The Cranberries 20. Heart 21. Pale Waves 22. Hole 23. Fleetwood Mac 24. Jefferson Airplane 25. The Bangles 26. Wilson Phillips27. The Ronettes 28. The Runaways/Blackhearts 29. Destiny’s Child 30. Garbage 31. The Supremes 32. First Aid Kit 33. All Saints 34. Spice Girls 35. TLC To extend the "hole" analogy, there are a few forgotten ladders that lead to other paths, like college (dental, vet, law, arts), trade school (music production, performance, theatre, dental asst, business, culinary, const trades, etc.). Every one of those is an alternate ladder to climb. Or Coven (Jinx Dawson's cover of One Tin Soldier was the only really big thing they did, although their occult rock set the stage for folks like Black Sabbath and others). Or Nightwish in the days when Tarja Turunen was there, since she far outshined the rest vocally. Jackie does duets quite well. But I'm not sure I see how her name is baggage (even if over-associated with CC singing kid, which is not what her more recent releases have really been). So being only slightly more visible than one of many in something that's very much an ensemble...problematic IMO. Might be some learning opportunities and a chance to be seen differently. But esp. if she's getting into doing her own writing and there's someone else in the band that also writes, collaboration vs tensions over vision (or who gets the extra royalties) can be difficult to sustain. There may be other problems with bands that make them a not-unmixed blessing. But insofar as she keeps for a tour or two (aside from occasional performances with an orchestra) a fixed set of musicians that work well together (some of which may be able to be collaborators) rather than mostly pickup musicians different at every stop, I don't see that as being far from a band, save for having a separate name. A middle ground is groups named (person) and (band name), esp. if both have some recognition of their own. Presumably the proposed (mini?) tour with Michael Grimm will be a co-billing situation. There's a lot of exploration of possibilities we easily forget is already happening/has already happened. |
|
|
|
Post by amg1977 on Oct 5, 2023 19:08:32 GMT -5
Its posturing as usual as if you got the golden ticket like Charlie in the Chocolate Factory: YOU DO NOT HAVE THE NUMBERS for:
CITY WINERIES: what they all actually made those nights bev, food, and ticket sales combined, as well as how much she was contracted to be paid. COT we know the stream totals but the cumulative sales for pure albums as well as equivalents, only the label has those and it was enough for them to go forward and even sign a more expensive act in Sara Evans and give her the creative control (I saw the zoom, btw where were you, chicken?) and she clearly can release when she wants, that is control she never had prior. Only a fool would conclude that was a failure even without the numbers. BME ALL TRACK SALES, ALL STREAM COUNTS, INCLUDING AIRPLAY.and your argument is the equivalent of just because people consume fast food (because some psychotic who plays hide and seek games and cant sit on just one account says so and a bunch of dumb kids do so), some people may prefer Ruth's Chris. Again you are not arguing with me - you are arguing with math. Its posturing as usual as if you got the golden ticket like Charlie in the Chocolate Factory:What I have is actual evidence. What you have is pipe dreams wrapped in a coating of bs. CITY WINERIES: what they all actually made those nights bev, food, and ticket sales combined, as well as how much she was contracted to be paid.
I don't know if you are confusing me with someone else, but how successful (or unsuccessful) her winery tour was and the reasons for her canceling it was not something I discussed in my post or much at any other time. In fact, I had pointed out when it was announced that the success of the tour was as much tied to the food purchased than the tickets sold. My only question for the potential success/failure of the tour was that she was appearing in downtown areas of major cities where most (e.g., Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, etc.) were not likely strong areas for Jackie. This was born out by the fact that her ticket sales in more "red state" and demographically older areas were far better. Since my post dealt with the sales of COT, her tour was not at all relevant to my point. COT we know the stream totals but the cumulative sales for pure albums as well as equivalents, only the label has those and it was enough for them to go forward and even sign a more expensive act in Sara Evans and give her the creative control (I saw the zoom, btw where were you, chicken?) and she clearly can release when she wants, that is control she never had prior. Only a fool would conclude that was a failure even without the numbers.A sale of COT would be equivalent to 150 streams per track for 10 tracks would have given her the equivalent of 1500 streams per album sold. Sales in any significant number would have placed her near the top of the chat she placed in (new album sales) as well as the album sales overall where she did not place. That did not happen and so the sales could not have happened. What only a fool would do is assume that Jackie is the one lone recording artist (even among CC artists) whose album sales did not implode. You apparently think she is an exception to what has happened to every other artist in the recording industry. Even Taylor Swift has seen album sales drop by 90+%. But somehow, you think Jackie is exempt?? I am merely saying nothing out of the ordinary happened. You are saying the earth suddenly stopped spinning on its axis for Jackie. And I need to explain???  As for MP, they are a small label who are trying to grow. Both Jackie and Sara Evans are fairly big names for a small label and they can get attention for them. However, neither artist has had major success in recent years. Those are facts born out by numbers. Since streamed releases cost nothing but the cost of the studio time, I would imagine she could release whatever she likes. Does that prove anything? Do we have any indication the new EP will be have physical media? BME ALL TRACK SALES, ALL STREAM COUNTS, INCLUDING AIRPLAY.
and your argument is the equivalent of just because people consume fast food (because some psychotic who plays hide and seek games and cant sit on just one account says so and a bunch of dumb kids do so), some people may prefer Ruth's Chris.I have not said anything negative about BME. I have been pretty positive about it and defended Jackie's recent songwriting. I expected her to be starting off slowly and said repeatedly it would not be for a few years before we know if the transformation was a successful one. I have no issue with Jackie singing CC or anything else she really wants to sing. My issue has always been that she did not have the freedom to make her own choice since she was locked in to a career before she developed her own musical tastes. At this point, her CC career was a game of diminishing returns and so it made perfect sense to choose another area - one she liked. |
|
|
|
Post by Has-Beens on Oct 5, 2023 19:37:19 GMT -5
Another way to look at joining a group is think of it as a collaboration. Let's say Greg Camp and Jackie talk about forming a group. Both of these people have connections aplenty that could result in a very good lineup of pro musicians. They used to call these collaborations "supergroups" but it's really just a collaboration. Jackie, Greg Camp, Grimm, et al have not had a hit in at least a decade, or much longer. The theory seems to be that if you put together a bunch of has-beens, you create a supergroup. I think that if you put together a bunch of has-beens, you create ... well ... a bunch of has-beens. |
|
|
|
Post by colt46 on Oct 5, 2023 19:52:12 GMT -5
Well Has - Been your post is a Has - Been! You have a fan In your post , how nice! I am not one of them however!
|
|
|
|
Post by donkey on Oct 5, 2023 19:53:48 GMT -5
Another way to look at joining a group is think of it as a collaboration. Let's say Greg Camp and Jackie talk about forming a group. Both of these people have connections aplenty that could result in a very good lineup of pro musicians. They used to call these collaborations "supergroups" but it's really just a collaboration. Jackie, Greg Camp, Grimm, et al have not had a hit in at least a decade, or much longer. The theory seems to be that if you put together a bunch of has-beens, you create a supergroup. I think that if you put together a bunch of has-beens, you create ... well ... a bunch of has-beens. You can't argue with that kind of logic.  |
|
|
|
Post by Socal Fan on Oct 5, 2023 19:53:50 GMT -5
I expected her to be starting off slowly and said repeatedly it would not be for a few years before we know if the transformation was a successful one. I agree. Unfortunately, writing songs, producing songs, releasing albums and promoting albums all take money. I don't think Team E and Melody Place have deep pockets. I suspect that if the BME EP is not successful, Jackie will return to CC. She cannot afford to be a pop wannabe for a few years. |
|
|
|
Post by BOGC on Oct 5, 2023 19:58:24 GMT -5
At this point, her CC career was a game of diminishing returns and so it made perfect sense to choose another area - one she liked. What one likes to sing, has something to say writing, and likes to listen to, may not all be the same thing. As long as one isn't tortured by what pays the bills, I don't think they have to be. Being able and willing to do a variety of styles (or for everyone in danger of being automated out of a job with AI, new skills), is good regardless of which one likes more than the other; and as long as one can afford the necessities and to continue one's career, regardless even of which pays better, because it's a form of preparedness for the time when things-as-they-are doesn't work anymore. |
|
|
|
Post by donkey on Oct 5, 2023 20:00:21 GMT -5
I expected her to be starting off slowly and said repeatedly it would not be for a few years before we know if the transformation was a successful one. I agree. Unfortunately, writing songs, producing songs, releasing albums and promoting albums all take money. I don't think Team E and Melody Place have deep pockets. I suspect that if the BME EP is not successful, Jackie will return to CC. She cannot afford to be a pop wannabe for a few years. Yes, unfortunately giving her a few years is fair, but it's also a nice way to give prolonged hope for something that is unlikely to succeed. But I think most of us acknowledge that. That all being said, I'm here for it. Bring on more songs Jackie. While the odds are long, it really does seem like the best way forward for her at this point if she wants to take her shot at another career. I may be skeptical, but I wish her luck and will certainly root her on. I for one was more impressed with Behind My Eyes than I expected to be, and the sample they played of the fully producted "Smoking Gun" was smoking hot imo. lol |
|
|
|
Post by Guest 4 on Oct 5, 2023 20:07:01 GMT -5
Jackie, Greg Camp, Grimm, et al have not had a hit in at least a decade, or much longer. The theory seems to be that if you put together a bunch of has-beens, you create a supergroup. I think that if you put together a bunch of has-beens, you create ... well ... a bunch of has-beens. You can't argue with that kind of logic. Yes you can. Grand Funk came from a bunch of relative nobodies and one-hitters. Robert Plant might have faded into history if he hadn't been tapped for Led Zeppelin. A supergroup isn't a super group, it's just what the industry sometimes calls collaborations made up of people who have been popular on their own. Has-beens is probably the first thought of people who form them, or the opposite, go solo (As a Humble Pie fan I snickered when Peter Frampton went solo. Yeah right, he'll never amount to anything). But this is all beside the point. We're not signing off on a new direction for Jackie. It's just an option for discussion. Has-beens making an album is only part of that discussion. The viability and potential success of such a group is (as Msims would say) not up to us. It's just a suggested path she could take. The chick is only 23 years old, she has lots of options. |
|
|
|
Post by donkey on Oct 5, 2023 20:39:26 GMT -5
You can't argue with that kind of logic. Yes you can. Grand Funk came from a bunch of relative nobodies and one-hitters. Robert Plant might have faded into history if he hadn't been tapped for Led Zeppelin. A supergroup isn't a super group, it's just what the industry sometimes calls collaborations made up of people who have been popular on their own. Has-beens is probably the first thought of people who form them, or the opposite, go solo (As a Humble Pie fan I snickered when Peter Frampton went solo. Yeah right, he'll never amount to anything). But this is all beside the point. We're not signing off on a new direction for Jackie. It's just an option for discussion. Has-beens making an album is only part of that discussion. The viability and potential success of such a group is (as Msims would say) not up to us. It's just a suggested path she could take. The chick is only 23 years old, she has lots of options. But were Robert Plant and Led Zepplin both famous and successful at one time and then they both faded off into obscurity? Then they got together and both became famous and successful again? Because that would have to have been the case for your comparison to work here. Jackie, Grimm, and Camp were once all pretty famous...and now they are all mostly washed up...their successful days barely visible in the rearview mirror. Putting them together won't likely make any difference. |
|
|
|
Post by BOGC on Oct 5, 2023 20:49:48 GMT -5
I expected her to be starting off slowly and said repeatedly it would not be for a few years before we know if the transformation was a successful one. I agree. Unfortunately, writing songs, producing songs, releasing albums and promoting albums all take money. I don't think Team E and Melody Place have deep pockets. I suspect that if the BME EP is not successful, Jackie will return to CC. She cannot afford to be a pop wannabe for a few years. Once one has some skills, writing and even as much of producing as does not take special equipment or session musicians costs time rather than money directly; and if one isn't otherwise making money with the time, and is sufficiently interested, that's not burdensome or otherwise limiting, just slower than throwing money at it. And the level of involvement makes it likelier that future choices where to spend money, will be better informed. |
|
