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Post by colt46 on Oct 11, 2023 15:33:22 GMT -5
You mean you can’t support Jackie without being called an over the top fan ?
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Post by Socal Fan on Oct 11, 2023 15:58:45 GMT -5
There is a reason most highly successful singers in the industry have amazing voices...talent matters. I've never found that to the case for me. For me, most of the highly successful singers have very average voices: Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Mick Jagger, Michael Jackson, Elton John, Ed Sheeran, etc, etc. And same with the latest batch of singers we have been talking about: Olivia Rodrigo, Tate McRae, Billie Eilish, Selena Gomez, etc. All very decent but very average voices, nothing that would cause them to stand out in the very large crowd of singers. What made them stand out was songwriting and charisma. |
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Post by donkey on Oct 11, 2023 16:28:29 GMT -5
There is a reason most highly successful singers in the industry have amazing voices...talent matters. I've never found that to the case for me. For me, most of the highly successful singers have very average voices: Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Mick Jagger, Michael Jackson, Elton John, Ed Sheeran, etc, etc. And same with the latest batch of singers we have been talking about: Olivia Rodrigo, Tate McRae, Billie Eilish, Selena Gomez, etc. All very decent but very average voices, nothing that would cause them to stand out in the very large crowd of singers. What made them stand out was songwriting and charisma. See, I don't think they have "average" voices. If you are talking about are they highly technically trained...then no. But those singers have mega talent in the singing department. And most of their voices are VERY distinct....that's what causes them to stand out in a crowd. Just hearing an audio of them singing, you know immediately it's Elton John, or MJ, or Paul McCartney, or Mick Jacgger. Mabye we disagree on what an "average" voice is. I don't think there is anything average about those voices. I think they are highly talented vocally. I don't equate technically good with talent level. Their voices and way of singing are unique and very able to convey lyrics in such a way as to captivate huge audiences. That is talent. All the costumes and charisma and persona help draw fans for sure, but I submit that it would all be for not if it wasn't for their underlying vocal talent. |
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Post by donkey on Oct 11, 2023 16:40:11 GMT -5
The man before me is a OTT member 100% . Most likely OTH also ( over the hill ) He is a love-sick Jackie fan . As a Jackie fan from the beginning, I find this absolutely fascinating. It's so cool to watch the adult Jackie watching the 10 year old Jackie perform on AGT, while explaining what she was thinking and feeling at the time. |
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Post by Beltin' John on Oct 11, 2023 16:46:06 GMT -5
Elton John's voice went to hell after he had surgery for polyps on his vocal cords, I think (circa 1987). Whatever it was, he lost all that beautiful tone and range. His vocals on his first half-dozen albums were stunning sometimes. One of the craziest voices ever was Janis Joplin, but man-oh-man her live version of Ball and Chain at Monterey Pop flattens me. It's on YouTube. I get extremely bored with "pretty" voices from talent shows.
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Post by Socal Fan on Oct 11, 2023 16:59:07 GMT -5
As a Jackie fan from the beginning, I find this absolutely fascinating. It's so cool to watch the adult Jackie watching the 10 year old Jackie perform on AGT, while explaining what she was thinking and feeling at the time. When watching this and her recent Hong Kong interview, I was struck by how much AGT 2010 continues to define and dominate Jackie even after more than half her life has passed. It's like she's ... well ... trapped in a time warp. Grace Vanderwaal seldom talks about AGT even though it launched her career. I suspect it is the same with Darci Lynne and Terry Fator. I assume that's because Grace, Darci and Terry have ... well ... moved on. AGT was a very important part of their careers but they have grown and done much more. Grace has starred in 2 movies, Terry has a huge Vegas career and Darci has toured in large venues. But Jackie's career peaked at AGT and has gone downhill since then. Her last big thing was AGT and she has nothing new to discuss. (Other than her mental illness and singing for Trump but those are two other cans of worms.) |
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Post by Socal Fan on Oct 11, 2023 17:04:39 GMT -5
Elton John's voice went to hell after he had surgery for polyps on his vocal cords, I think (circa 1987). Whatever it was, he lost all that beautiful tone and range. I know nothing about Elton John but if what you are saying is true, then it just proves my point. He lost his voice circa 1987 but has been one of the biggest singing stars in the world in the 36 years since then. That would suggest that voice matters little. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Oct 11, 2023 17:08:31 GMT -5
See, I don't think they have "average" voices. ... Just hearing an audio of them singing, you know immediately it's Elton John, or MJ, or Paul McCartney, or Mick Jacgger. Mabye we disagree on what an "average" voice is. I don't think there is anything average about those voices. I think they are highly talented vocally. Very interesting issue. Does anyone else have an opinion? |
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Post by donkey on Oct 11, 2023 17:09:34 GMT -5
Elton John's voice went to hell after he had surgery for polyps on his vocal cords, I think (circa 1987). Whatever it was, he lost all that beautiful tone and range. I know nothing about Elton John but if what you are saying is true, then it just proves my point. He lost his voice circa 1987 but has been one of the biggest singing stars in the world in the 36 years since then. That would suggest that voice matters little. No, it suggests that loyal fans are were giving him a tribute in the end...payng him respect near the end of his career and still enjoying what magic was left. Same thing happened to Kenny Rogers and to a lesser extent Phil Collins. These are legends. And I didn't see Elton John live, but I saw a video of him singing one of his last concerts, and he still sounded quite good to me. By the way, I used to be a huge EJ fan. |
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Post by donkey on Oct 11, 2023 17:11:06 GMT -5
See, I don't think they have "average" voices. ... Just hearing an audio of them singing, you know immediately it's Elton John, or MJ, or Paul McCartney, or Mick Jacgger. Mabye we disagree on what an "average" voice is. I don't think there is anything average about those voices. I think they are highly talented vocally. Very interesting issue. Does anyone else have an opinion? Willie Nelson is another example. Not what you might call a brilliant singer, but incredibly unique singing voice and hugely talented storyteller. |
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Post by 1 Guest on Oct 11, 2023 17:29:35 GMT -5
I know nothing about Elton John but if what you are saying is true, then it just proves my point. He lost his voice circa 1987 but has been one of the biggest singing stars in the world in the 36 years since then. That would suggest that voice matters little. Same thing happened to Kenny Rogers and to a lesser extent Phil Collins. These are legends. And I didn't see Elton John live, but I saw a video of him singing one of his last concerts, and he still sounded quite good to me. By the way, I used to be a huge EJ fan. That's hardly the case if he had his surgery in 1987. I always liked Elton John a lot, never paid much attention to his voice, voice doesn't mean much to me, but I loved his music. |
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Post by BOGC on Oct 11, 2023 17:55:07 GMT -5
And to many who saw Jackie, she was the first opera/CC singing kid they had heard so the others who came later did not have the same shock value, and by that time interest in the genre had faded significantly. I and others I know had heard young Charlotte Church before. She was pretty good, but IMO Jackie's tone and pitch accuracy was far better. Back in 2011 I played the video of "Angel" from DWMIC to someone that had gotten me listening to Charlotte Church, and it blew them away. |
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Post by Beltin' John on Oct 11, 2023 17:55:46 GMT -5
Elton John early (1972), and when his voice was giving out (1987), singing "Rocket Man." No need to listen entirely to both, just listen to less than a minute or so of each. You can hear his voice giving out in the Australia concert. This was the beginning of the end of his greatest era in my opinion.
I won't bother with his recent voice, but singing the same song at Glatonbury this year, he still has some beautiful tonal qualities, but he has had to pull down high notes for quite a long time now. Some older singers like Jame Taylor and Emmylou Harris can still reach the notes, but no fault of Elton John's, he can't, and I just can't listen to his later stuff.
Elton John - Rocket Man (London 1972)
Elton John - Rocket Man (Sydney, Australia 1986)
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Post by BOGC on Oct 11, 2023 17:57:59 GMT -5
Elton John's voice went to hell after he had surgery for polyps on his vocal cords, I think (circa 1987). Whatever it was, he lost all that beautiful tone and range. I know nothing about Elton John but if what you are saying is true, then it just proves my point. He lost his voice circa 1987 but has been one of the biggest singing stars in the world in the 36 years since then. That would suggest that voice matters little. No, it suggests he was already known AND still had his other advantages. Except for Springsteen and Dylan, people don't tend to pay frogs to sing, even if they very briefly don't find it annoying on summer evenings by the pond. edit: to the extent (if any) you're right, to the same extent the listener approaches tone deaf. That shouldn't be surprising if you hear a bunch of people in a restaurant singing "Happy Birthday" all on different keys and some not right even wherever they start. The sentiment may be there, but to those who don't share their disability, the result is literally painful. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Oct 11, 2023 18:35:28 GMT -5
Very interesting issue. Does anyone else have an opinion? Willie Nelson is another example. Not what you might call a brilliant singer, but incredibly unique singing voice and hugely talented storyteller. So you are saying that one can achieve success with not necessarily a good voice but an unusual voice instead. I agree. GraceV has a raspy voice that many fans like. Also Louis Armstrong. And many others. An unusual voice isn't a "talent" or special ability but it does help to make a singer noticed. |
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