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Post by richard on Mar 31, 2024 12:19:10 GMT -5
Happy Easter forum! May the Easter Bunny find you well. If you've been bad this year, well, good luck to you. lol That must be in a liberal state. In my state the bunny would have been blown away before he got through the front door. A sheriff in Florida is telling the people of his county if someone breaks into your home shoot first and he hopes you kill them as it is less trouble for everyone. |
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Post by johnnyb on Mar 31, 2024 12:52:20 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think there is anything complex about Jackie at all. Starting in Junior High (or even earlier) girls start wearing skimpy bikinis, short skirts and low cut tops. (Whether one approves or not is an entirely separate issue.) Sex sells, and every girl and every man knows it. Jackie is simply behaving like a zillion other girls. No more, no less. No complex analysis needed. Ah, but coming from someone who thinks she looks ugly, aka body dysmorphia, and thinks she is overweight, aka anorexia, what motivates that mind to dress in skimpy clothing, especially in a video that is supposed to be about her mental health issues, aka her fear, running scared, something being hard to bear. A lot of complex thoughts going on at once there. I would assert it might not be as simple as trying to get views by showing some skin. Mabye the low cut top is trying to do that, but I think there's a chance she's not trying to be sexual at all in the first part, even though I can see how some would think that. It doesn't make sense with the subject of the song. Low cut top aside, I didn't see it that way the first time I watched it. I did think the bedroom scene lagged and lasted too long though...and I was a bit confused at first about what it meant. Might it, for instance, represent her trying to be and look pure and innocent (the white) and perfect(the perfect little angelic girl all the fans came to expect) before all the expectations and resulting mental illness hits her(the rest of the video)? I think it can reasonably be argued that the look on her face in the first scene isn't sexual at all, but emotionless and innocent. I’m not sure why or what your motive is for denying the obvious, the video was very provocative to say the least. |
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Post by richard on Mar 31, 2024 12:59:58 GMT -5
Actually, I don't think there is anything complex about Jackie at all. Starting in Junior High (or even earlier) girls start wearing skimpy bikinis, short skirts and low cut tops. (Whether one approves or not is an entirely separate issue.) Sex sells, and every girl and every man knows it. Jackie is simply behaving like a zillion other girls. No more, no less. No complex analysis needed. Ah, but coming from someone who thinks she looks ugly, aka body dysmorphia, and thinks she is overweight, aka anorexia, what motivates that mind to dress in skimpy clothing, especially in a video that is supposed to be about her mental health issues, aka her fear, running scared, something being hard to bear. A lot of complex thoughts going on at once there. I would assert it might not be as simple as trying to get views by showing some skin. I even think there's a chance she's not trying to be sexual at all in the first part, even though I can see how some would think that. It doesn't make sense with the subject of the song. Might it, for instance, represent her trying to be and look perfect before all the expectations and mental illness hits her, the all white bedroom and clothing and innocent look on her face representing the pure perfection she was seeking to achieve before it all hit the fan (the rest of the video)? I think it can reasonably be argued that the look on her face in the first scene isn't sexual at all, but emotionless. There is no way in hell that Jackie thinks she is ugly there are just to many photos and videos that prove she does not think that. I could say that Miley Cyrus wasn't trying to look sexy when Making "Wrecking Ball" she was just talking about her ex boyfriend.
Of course Jackie wanted to look sexy on the video, I am sure she didn't go into the studio wearing just a sweater.
I find it funny that this is even an issue. No other artist would anybody be saying a thing about it.
Maybe if Jackie would have went shopping with Grace Vanderwaal at that vintage store she could have found a grandma dress to wear.
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Post by johnnyb on Mar 31, 2024 14:15:03 GMT -5
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Post by amg1977 on Mar 31, 2024 15:07:25 GMT -5
Ah, but coming from someone who thinks she looks ugly, aka body dysmorphia, and thinks she is overweight, aka anorexia, what motivates that mind to dress in skimpy clothing, especially in a video that is supposed to be about her mental health issues, aka her fear, running scared, something being hard to bear. A lot of complex thoughts going on at once there. I would assert it might not be as simple as trying to get views by showing some skin. I even think there's a chance she's not trying to be sexual at all in the first part, even though I can see how some would think that. It doesn't make sense with the subject of the song. Might it, for instance, represent her trying to be and look perfect before all the expectations and mental illness hits her, the all white bedroom and clothing and innocent look on her face representing the pure perfection she was seeking to achieve before it all hit the fan (the rest of the video)? I think it can reasonably be argued that the look on her face in the first scene isn't sexual at all, but emotionless.
In the past while I think it is possible Jackie saw herself as unattractive, I think it more likely she was forced (whether intended or not) into an asexual public image that did not allow for the normal type of growing up moves of independence Socal Fan alluded to in a post above (short skirts, low cut blouses, etc.). i think she was placed into what I had referred to in the past as the "granddaughter the old fogies wished they had rather than the Ariana mini-mes they actually have as granddaughters." The things normal girls do she could not do. Well, now that her label has her moving away from pleasing the old fogies, she is having fun with it. It isn't necessarily overtly saying "I want to shock everyone by sexing it up" as much as "I want to dress like other young women my age and appear in videos the way other young female singers do." Is there anything different from the way she appeared in the video and the way she appeared in recent photo shoots? Of course it looks sexier but that's not hard when her previous performance standard was a ball gown. |
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Post by amg1977 on Mar 31, 2024 15:09:46 GMT -5
Maybe if Jackie would have went shopping with Grace Vanderwaal at that vintage store she could have found a grandma dress to wear.
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Post by donkey on Mar 31, 2024 15:36:42 GMT -5
Ah, but coming from someone who thinks she looks ugly, aka body dysmorphia, and thinks she is overweight, aka anorexia, what motivates that mind to dress in skimpy clothing, especially in a video that is supposed to be about her mental health issues, aka her fear, running scared, something being hard to bear. A lot of complex thoughts going on at once there. I would assert it might not be as simple as trying to get views by showing some skin. I even think there's a chance she's not trying to be sexual at all in the first part, even though I can see how some would think that. It doesn't make sense with the subject of the song. Might it, for instance, represent her trying to be and look perfect before all the expectations and mental illness hits her, the all white bedroom and clothing and innocent look on her face representing the pure perfection she was seeking to achieve before it all hit the fan (the rest of the video)? I think it can reasonably be argued that the look on her face in the first scene isn't sexual at all, but emotionless.
In the past while I think it is possible Jackie saw herself as unattractive, I think it more likely she was forced (whether intended or not) into an asexual public image that did not allow for the normal type of growing up moves of independence Socal Fan alluded to in a post above (short skirts, low cut blouses, etc.). i think she was placed into what I had referred to in the past as the "granddaughter the old fogies wished they had rather than the Ariana mini-mes they actually have as granddaughters." The things normal girls do she could not do. Well, now that her label has her moving away from pleasing the old fogies, she is having fun with it. It isn't necessarily overtly saying "I want to shock everyone by sexing it up" as much as "I want to dress like other young women my age and appear in videos the way other young female singers do." Is there anything different from the way she appeared in the video and the way she appeared in recent photo shoots? Of course it looks sexier but that's not hard when her previous performance standard was a ball gown. I have no doubt Jackie wanted to appear fashionable, perhaps somewhat sexy, just as she has in a number of modeling photos she has put out as you mentioned...nothing wrong with that. Perhaps her looking sexy in the all white room represents the real Jackie, stuck in this pure, angelic, innocent, perfect white room that her fans have her locked in. |
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Post by The Jackinator on Mar 31, 2024 18:28:10 GMT -5
There is no "mental illness vs. sex" dichotomy. it's "both/and" rather than "either/or."
I have no doubt Jackie wanted to appear fashionable, perhaps somewhat sexy, just as she has in a number of modeling photos she has put out as you mentioned...nothing wrong with that. Perhaps her looking sexy in the all white room represents the real Jackie, stuck in this pure, angelic, innocent, perfect white room that her fans have her locked in.amg1977 - that is the best explanation for that opening BME scene - it accomplished both. For years now, fans have been getting a bad rap for "trapping" Jackie into an innocent role. While there is no shortage of that type of fan, Jackie has always had the choice to move away from that image and do something else. Of course, creating a new image comes at the cost of losing old fans, but Jackie and team held her back because they knew where their bread was buttered. That choice was not made by fans, but by Jackie. Fans that wanted Jackie to stay "innocent" should not feel an ounce of guilt as they've wanted her to be the anti-Britney, anti-Miley, anti-Jessica, anti-Gaga, etc. Since she has chosen to go in a new path, I just wish that she would have gone in a much more up-tempo direction. |
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Post by msims on Mar 31, 2024 18:52:53 GMT -5
that her fans have her locked in. This is straw man ad hominem fallacies. Actual fans (none of the above) supported her, bought tickets and bought/streamed her music and still do. So of course they are going to be attacked and they always have been here because they cant be controlled (by the above) or manipulated into turning into antifans. Her image was pushed by the media and by her PR for years. Now it has to be or has been changed and updated. She needs a new PR team or Melody has to do her right. amg1977 Greg Camp explains theres just: WRITERS and PUBLISHING, that is then split between those involved. |
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Post by donkey on Mar 31, 2024 19:05:31 GMT -5
I have no doubt Jackie wanted to appear fashionable, perhaps somewhat sexy, just as she has in a number of modeling photos she has put out as you mentioned...nothing wrong with that. Perhaps her looking sexy in the all white room represents the real Jackie, stuck in this pure, angelic, innocent, perfect white room that her fans have her locked in.amg1977 - that is the best explanation for that opening BME scene - it accomplished both. For years now, fans have been getting a bad rap for "trapping" Jackie into an innocent role. While there is no shortage of that type of fan, Jackie has always had the choice to move away from that image and do something else. Of course, creating a new image comes at the cost of losing old fans, but Jackie and team held her back because they knew where their bread was buttered. That choice was not made by fans, but by Jackie. Fans that wanted Jackie to stay "innocent" should not feel an ounce of guilt as they've wanted her to be the anti-Britney, anti-Miley, anti-Jessica, anti-Gaga, etc. Since she has chosen to go in a new path, I just wish that she would have gone in a much more up-tempo direction. Easy for you to say. Jackie clearly felt trapped when she got older with the thing that made her famous...being a cute, sweet, innocent kid with an angelic voice. Not saying that it was fan's "fault", but the reality is her fan base wanted that sweet, innocent, conservative, straight laced kid for as long as they could get it. It is what it is...nobody is at fault. I should have worded it differently, but when I said the white room represents the purity room that fans "trapped" Jackie in, I meant that's how she felt(thus this video and also the Pedestal video/song). She's explained that a number of times...that she felt trapped by expectations. She's also explained herself that it wasn't her fans fault. But that doesn't change how she felt. And there was reason to think it...it's clearly what most of her fan base expected and wanted. And it was all part of her fame...her sweetness and innocence. And she was a child, so it's easy to say she should have done this or should have done that, but as a kid, that's really an unfair judgement for you to make on her as an adult, even more so not knowing what was going on behind the scenes professionally and with her parents. One thing we do know for sure, her situation messed her up royally from a mental health standpoint. It's not about blame so much as it's just about how the child Jackie perceived things, being thrust into the insane world of fame (although Jackie clearly blames someone in her professional life who pushed this need to be perfect in everything she does on her). If we were to talk about blame, I would put little of it on fans (mabye just on a few of the most OTT fans that crossed that line a few times), and more of it on her parents as they were supposed to be looking out for her well being and made some pretty big mistakes, even though I'm sure they meant well (at least I hope so). Ultimately though, I don't think this song is about the blame game at all...I think it's about how Jackie perceived things and how her brain was reacting to everything around her. You could say, "Hey, nobody put her in that purity room." for instance, but that is how she felt is the point. |
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Post by amg1977 on Mar 31, 2024 19:45:53 GMT -5
Greg Camp explains theres just: WRITERS and PUBLISHING, that is then split between those involved. Still beating that dead horse I see. if you go to the minute prior to when you started the excerpt, it is pretty obvious he is talking about the money HE received as a writer - the writer's share and the publisher's share since the group Smashmouth owned the publishing although he ended up being the only decent songwriter. Each of those is 9.4% of the $0.02 per stream which ends up being $0.0018 per stream. Since the group jointly owned the publishing, that money was split. Camp was entitled to keep all of the songwriting money but chose to split it with the group. All of the money to songwriter and publisher is on the music publishing side and that is why ASCAP or BMI are involved. The recording is the label and the recording artist gets 16% of the $0.02 cents per stream which is where the $0.0032 per stream comes from as Camp himself has posted about on his own Twitter which you reposted some months ago confirming what I just said.
Of course, what Camp is speaking about (the successful years of Smashmouth followed by their fall) in all of this is completely irrelevant to streaming since the partitioning of money for Smashmouth he is referring to OCCURRED BEFORE STREAMING EVEN EXISTED!! Smashmouth has their years of great success between 1999 and 2004. Streaming was not even a factor prior to 2015 and Camp had left the group by then. So he was referring to the days of CDs.
I think it's time for you to give this whole "no one makes money streaming" thing up. You only make it obvious you don't have a clue how this works.
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Post by The Jackinator on Mar 31, 2024 19:46:25 GMT -5
amg1977 - that is the best explanation for that opening BME scene - it accomplished both. For years now, fans have been getting a bad rap for "trapping" Jackie into an innocent role. While there is no shortage of that type of fan, Jackie has always had the choice to move away from that image and do something else. Of course, creating a new image comes at the cost of losing old fans, but Jackie and team held her back because they knew where their bread was buttered. That choice was not made by fans, but by Jackie. Fans that wanted Jackie to stay "innocent" should not feel an ounce of guilt as they've wanted her to be the anti-Britney, anti-Miley, anti-Jessica, anti-Gaga, etc. Since she has chosen to go in a new path, I just wish that she would have gone in a much more up-tempo direction. Easy for you to say. Jackie clearly felt trapped when she got older with the thing that made her famous...being a cute, sweet, innocent kid with an angelic voice. Not saying that it was fan's "fault", but the reality is her fan base wanted that sweet, innocent, conservative, straight laced kid for as long as they could get it. It is what it is...nobody is at fault. I should have worded it differently, but when I said the white room represents the purity room that fans "trapped" Jackie in, I meant that's how she felt(thus this video and also the Pedestal video/song). She's explained that a number of times...that she felt trapped by expectations. She's also explained herself that it wasn't her fans fault. But that doesn't change how she felt. And there was reason to think it...it's clearly what most of her fan base expected and wanted. And it was all part of her fame...her sweetness and innocence. And she was a child, so it's easy to say she should have done this or should have done that, but as a kid, that's really an unfair judgement for you to make on her as an adult, even more so not knowing what was going on behind the scenes professionally and with her parents. One thing we do know for sure, her situation messed her up royally from a mental health standpoint. It's not about blame so much as it's just about how the child Jackie perceived things, being thrust into the insane world of fame (although Jackie clearly blames someone in her professional life who pushed this need to be perfect in everything she does on her). If we were to talk about blame, I would put little of it on fans (mabye just on a few of the most OTT fans that crossed that line a few times), and more of it on her parents as they were supposed to be looking out for her well being and made some pretty big mistakes, even though I'm sure they meant well (at least I hope so). Ultimately though, I don't think this song is about the blame game at all...I think it's about how Jackie perceived things and how her brain was reacting to everything around her. You could say, "Hey, nobody put her in that purity room." for instance, but that is how she felt is the point. I don't have a problem with the way you worded anything, rather just making a general observation. You're right, I shouldn't blame Jackie for any of the mismanagement at that time in her career, but rather the management around her. In Lisa's forum, she started lashing out at fans for keeping Jackie frozen in time and making her fill the "angel" role. One expression of her frustrations with fans was when she posted the infamous cake photo. In the back of my mind I kept saying, "OK, Lisa, if you want to move on from the angel image, then move on from the angel image". That's all I was trying to say. |
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Post by donkey on Mar 31, 2024 19:55:17 GMT -5
Easy for you to say. Jackie clearly felt trapped when she got older with the thing that made her famous...being a cute, sweet, innocent kid with an angelic voice. Not saying that it was fan's "fault", but the reality is her fan base wanted that sweet, innocent, conservative, straight laced kid for as long as they could get it. It is what it is...nobody is at fault. I should have worded it differently, but when I said the white room represents the purity room that fans "trapped" Jackie in, I meant that's how she felt(thus this video and also the Pedestal video/song). She's explained that a number of times...that she felt trapped by expectations. She's also explained herself that it wasn't her fans fault. But that doesn't change how she felt. And there was reason to think it...it's clearly what most of her fan base expected and wanted. And it was all part of her fame...her sweetness and innocence. And she was a child, so it's easy to say she should have done this or should have done that, but as a kid, that's really an unfair judgement for you to make on her as an adult, even more so not knowing what was going on behind the scenes professionally and with her parents. One thing we do know for sure, her situation messed her up royally from a mental health standpoint. It's not about blame so much as it's just about how the child Jackie perceived things, being thrust into the insane world of fame (although Jackie clearly blames someone in her professional life who pushed this need to be perfect in everything she does on her). If we were to talk about blame, I would put little of it on fans (mabye just on a few of the most OTT fans that crossed that line a few times), and more of it on her parents as they were supposed to be looking out for her well being and made some pretty big mistakes, even though I'm sure they meant well (at least I hope so). Ultimately though, I don't think this song is about the blame game at all...I think it's about how Jackie perceived things and how her brain was reacting to everything around her. You could say, "Hey, nobody put her in that purity room." for instance, but that is how she felt is the point. I don't have a problem with the way you worded anything, rather just making a general observation. You're right, I shouldn't blame Jackie for any of the mismanagement at that time in her career, but rather the management around her. In Lisa's forum, she started lashing out at fans for keeping Jackie frozen in time and making her fill the "angel" role. One expression of her frustrations with fans was when she posted the infamous cake photo. In the back of my mind I kept saying, "OK, Lisa, if you want to move on from the angel image, then move on from the angel image". That's all I was trying to say. lol...the infamous cake photo |
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Post by amg1977 on Mar 31, 2024 20:11:45 GMT -5
I would suggest Sims take a close look at this image from Billboard
Notice that the publisher's and writer's percentages are duplicated which is what Camp referred to as "100% and 100%." Note also that this has nothing to do with the recorded music share which is a whole separate issue. The publisher and writer gets 5 + 4.4% with the other 1.2% going to ASCAP/BMI. None of this is new as the same sort of thing went on during the physical media days with the difference being the latter went by sale rather than stream. |
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Post by Breathinator on Mar 31, 2024 21:34:08 GMT -5
... Since she has chosen to go in a new path, I just wish that she would have gone in a much more up-tempo direction. My guess is because of her breath control issues. She uses too much air to produce her thin tone. She needs to fix this. In the more lively last part of this song, and when the song ends, I feel her lungs emptying rapidly. Jackie Evancho - Behind My Eyes (Live Performance) She has to take a breath in the middle of "Somewhere over the rainbow" when most singers would sail through it. Jackie Evancho - Somewhere Over the Rainbow This is Jackie at her finest in my opinion. This is her so-called "new voice" that she said she was taught to do during recording. She seemed pleased to learn this, and surprised she had it in her. Very open sounding, good breath control, and resonant. Whatever she's doing here, she has since stopped doing it. Jackie Evancho - Another Day/No Day But Today |
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