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Post by Quarterback Jack on May 1, 2024 13:53:19 GMT -5
Vocal training/coaching, does NOT change a singers natural tone. Why am I getting the feeling that some people think that the goal of vocal coaching is opera? Classical training has not been a hotbed issue since the opera snob wars on the Amazon forum. Vocal training is basic to all singers. How not to damage you instrument. Pop, hip-hop, rock, any - they all can benefit from knowing how to breathe, how to position and transition registers, how to not damage anything. Why does a quarterback need a coach? If the coach is so good, why doesn't the coach play instead? (One of the ridiculous arguments on the Amazon forum) The big reason Jackie needs coaching is her breathing issues. A coach isn't going to try to make her an opera singer, instead they are going to help her get through Behind My Eyes and Somewhere Over the Rainbow without having to breathe several times during each phrase. Jackie will sound like Jackie. The argument against coaching seems more like an argument that Jackie is so naturally gifted that she doesn't need to be shown how to do anything. That's B.S., Jackie needs to be shown how to sing properly, period. Nobody is saying (hopefully) that a little vocal training might not be helpful in some aspects. But, it certainly isn't required to have success in the music industry, and it certainly has nothing to do with the current state of Jackie's career. It's more like, "Jackie's career declined for the reasons we have previously stated on this forum. Oh, and by the way, a little vocal training to help with her breathing technique wouldn't hurt any." lol No, you're right, no one is saying coaching would not be helpful. But I am saying it would be helpful in Jackie's case. As for professional singers in general, it may not be required, but a singer would be foolish to not at least get a periodic checkup. Doctor, dentist, accountant, vocal coach. On the bolded part, I would argue that it did play a role in her decline.. albeit in a small way. I've had a hunch for as far back as Songs From the Silver Screen, that Jackie's preference for slowing the tempo of songs has to do with her needing more time to breathe between (and unfortunately sometimes during) phrases. I'm not in the mood to strenuously support the reasons for my hunch, but I'll just say that my hunch could graduate to at least a hypothesis with some research. But I'll go on nevertheless... I've seen enough comments about Jackie's slow-tempo repertoire and slower-than-written arrangements to know that I'm not alone on this. I believe that boredom is one of the many possible reasons for Jackie's decline, and tempo is one of the reasonable explanations for boredom that resonate with my experience. I personally found her (mid-career) slow repertoire boring. I tended to drift away from her a little. Maybe I'm the only one out of the others who has landed on this, but in my view there is a reasonable nexus between her vocal problems –> tempo/repertoire choices –> boredom –> and fan number decline. Again, it is a small component, but I suggest that it plays a non-zero role in her career decline. |
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Post by BOGC on May 1, 2024 13:54:19 GMT -5
The amount of pop that borrows from classical is absolutely insane. That wouldn't be the case if the people that created it were ignorant. Exactly! This shows that even the most boring trash can be salvaged if it is recycled with sufficient creativity and talent. Entropy is running. That means the odds are greater that works for the ages are cannibalized to make a profit for the latest musical con artists. Alternatively, maybe young riffraff are being fed a bit of culture, indirectly. But that's a bit optimistic, IMO. Classical (at least for western music) worked out EVERYTHING centuries ago. That's the reference frame for understanding and expertise. Most of the rest is indeed just recycling, and rarely for the better. PS the FF's were not mostly old, except Franklin and Whittemore (and those two didn't slow down much). And Mozart was YOUNG when he started. So the ageism and willful ignorance is on the part of most of the young, but some are capable of more if they're willing to make the effort. |
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Post by Socal Fan on May 1, 2024 14:50:19 GMT -5
Classical (at least for western music) worked out EVERYTHING centuries ago. That's the reference frame for understanding and expertise. Most of the rest is indeed just recycling, and rarely for the better. Really? So Taylor Swift's work is all recycled classical music? And Jackie's Solla? And the zillions of new pop songs every year? All worked out centuries ago? |
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Post by BOGC on May 1, 2024 14:55:26 GMT -5
Nobody is saying (hopefully) that a little vocal training might not be helpful in some aspects. But, it certainly isn't required to have success in the music industry, and it certainly has nothing to do with the current state of Jackie's career. It's more like, "Jackie's career declined for the reasons we have previously stated on this forum. Oh, and by the way, a little vocal training to help with her breathing technique wouldn't hurt any." lol No, you're right, no one is saying coaching would not be helpful. But I am saying it would be helpful in Jackie's case. As for professional singers in general, it may not be required, but a singer would be foolish to not at least get a periodic checkup. Doctor, dentist, accountant, vocal coach. On the bolded part, I would argue that it did play a role in her decline.. albeit in a small way. I've had a hunch for as far back as Songs From the Silver Screen, that Jackie's preference for slowing the tempo of songs has to do with her needing more time to breathe between (and unfortunately sometimes during) phrases. I'm not in the mood to strenuously support the reasons for my hunch, but I'll just say that my hunch could graduate to at least a hypothesis with some research. But I'll go on nevertheless... I've seen enough comments about Jackie's slow-tempo repertoire and slower-than-written arrangements to know that I'm not alone on this. I believe that boredom is one of the many possible reasons for Jackie's decline, and tempo is one of the reasonable explanations for boredom that resonate with my experience. I personally found her (mid-career) slow repertoire boring. I tended to drift away from her a little. Maybe I'm the only one out of the others who has landed on this, but in my view there is a reasonable nexus between her vocal problems –> tempo/repertoire choices –> boredom –> and fan number decline. Again, it is a small component, but I suggest that it plays a non-zero role in her career decline. It may not be announced, but she's had far more coaching that one might guess, although less than someone doing a more stressful schedule should have (in the extreme, once a week just to keep their technique safe and on point). Every new style that actually sounded country or whatever fit the genre, coaching. Every foreign language song, coaching. Way back, Yvie Burnett, coaching. Perhaps they hesitate to spend the time and money for more coaching if the benefits aren't clear enough, I don't know. Also, Jackie has had pneumonia, twice I think. That may not make a big difference, but it doesn't improve lung capacity (and at best doesn't make a difference for how effectively one can use the capacity one has, which is what coaching MIGHT help). |
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Post by BOGC on May 1, 2024 15:00:33 GMT -5
Classical (at least for western music) worked out EVERYTHING centuries ago. That's the reference frame for understanding and expertise. Most of the rest is indeed just recycling, and rarely for the better. Really? So Taylor Swift's work is all recycled classical music? And Jackie's Solla? And the zillions of new pop songs every year? All worked out centuries ago? Note for note, of course not. Principles, theory, chord progressions, what keys fit what moods, tuning systems that minimize wolf intervals and make it easier to transpose to different keys, and so much more that I don't begin to understand enough to mention. A heck of a lot of notes get borrowed though, although since all the old stuff is public domain, nobody is going to sue. VERY rarely, it is effective to break established structures. More often than not, it doesn't turn out so well. There was a lot of experimental music that's mostly painful to listen to, perhaps barely endurable if one studies it deeply. But that gets further and further away from the communication (not hormones, not inflaming a crowd like some demagogue) that's at the heart of art. |
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Post by richard on May 1, 2024 15:16:43 GMT -5
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Post by richard on May 1, 2024 17:13:35 GMT -5
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Post by msims on May 1, 2024 17:19:28 GMT -5
That Insta was liked by Clive Davis.  Hell we don't even get videos of Jackie's most recent concerts. Texas vids were posted on fb. As far as tour dates they havent rolled them all out yet. On the other hand the are countless untrained musical legends with no training who have had full careers and their voices survived just fine. Absolutely wrong, they have had training or coaching. You cannot sing for any period of time without it. Again this is gaslighting bs. That's B.S., Jackie needs to be shown how to sing properly, period. She taught the world how to sing: BOGC mentioned Amira who cited Jackie as an influence Smarten up and have some respect. I once said one of the best endorsements a singer can have is for some of Jackie's fans to say they won't make it. Reasonable people shouldn't say that, nor wish for it, and your always taking the most unreasonable as typical is neither accurate nor fair. Rickky has a history of spamming children and then lying/trolling by putting words in fans mouths, so no need to fall for it. No adult grown up follows children or cares about their progress, only Rickky. Updated: Jackie still has a career after more than a decade and that speaks to her so called "Mom/Pop management" This is fiction: 1. Shes charted on albums charts with every era including her first ever song on an AC chart. 2. Shes upped her followers counts and streams Only decline is in the mental state of those who refuse to keep up with things because they don't care and just lie. but she's had far more coaching that one might guess Coaching on tms as well. This character you're responding to is just gaslighting and doesn't understand CC or Jackie. |
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Post by donkey on May 1, 2024 17:48:38 GMT -5
Yes, but now it's time for May things. |
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Post by 1 Guest on May 1, 2024 17:53:34 GMT -5
Vocal training/coaching, does NOT change a singers natural tone. Why am I getting the feeling that some people think that the goal of vocal coaching is opera? Classical training has not been a hotbed issue since the opera snob wars on the Amazon forum. Vocal training is basic to all singers. How not to damage you instrument. Pop, hip-hop, rock, any - they all can benefit from knowing how to breathe, how to position and transition registers, how to not damage anything. Why does a quarterback need a coach? If the coach is so good, why doesn't the coach play instead? (One of the ridiculous arguments on the Amazon forum) The big reason Jackie needs coaching is her breathing issues. A coach isn't going to try to make her an opera singer, instead they are going to help her get through Behind My Eyes and Somewhere Over the Rainbow without having to breathe several times during each phrase. Jackie will sound like Jackie. The argument against coaching seems more like an argument that Jackie is so naturally gifted that she doesn't need to be shown how to do anything. That's B.S., Jackie needs to be shown how to sing properly, period. Nobody is saying (hopefully) that a little vocal training might not be helpful in some aspects. But, it certainly isn't required to have success in the music industry, and it certainly has nothing to do with the current state of Jackie's career. It's more like, "Jackie's career declined for the reasons we have previously stated on this forum. Oh, and by the way, a little vocal training to help with her breathing technique wouldn't hurt any." lol True, she's had a lot of success even without training, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try to be the best that you can be if people are paying to hear you sing. Not to mention she claims to be a perfectionist. |
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Post by 🦝 on May 1, 2024 17:59:26 GMT -5
She taught the world how to sing: BOGC mentioned Amira who cited Jackie as an influence Smarten up and have some respect. Sofia Chalamidas "One of her biggest professional inspirations was American classical singer Jackie Evancho, who achieved recognition at a very young age." www.aol.com/sandia-prep-junior-sings-her-150600244.htm |
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Post by eulenspiegel on May 1, 2024 18:00:30 GMT -5
Nobody is saying (hopefully) that a little vocal training might not be helpful in some aspects. But, it certainly isn't required to have success in the music industry, and it certainly has nothing to do with the current state of Jackie's career. It's more like, "Jackie's career declined for the reasons we have previously stated on this forum. Oh, and by the way, a little vocal training to help with her breathing technique wouldn't hurt any." lol No, you're right, no one is saying coaching would not be helpful. But I am saying it would be helpful in Jackie's case. As for professional singers in general, it may not be required, but a singer would be foolish to not at least get a periodic checkup. Doctor, dentist, accountant, vocal coach. On the bolded part, I would argue that it did play a role in her decline.. albeit in a small way. I've had a hunch for as far back as Songs From the Silver Screen, that Jackie's preference for slowing the tempo of songs has to do with her needing more time to breathe between (and unfortunately sometimes during) phrases. I'm not in the mood to strenuously support the reasons for my hunch, but I'll just say that my hunch could graduate to at least a hypothesis with some research. But I'll go on nevertheless... I've seen enough comments about Jackie's slow-tempo repertoire and slower-than-written arrangements to know that I'm not alone on this. I believe that boredom is one of the many possible reasons for Jackie's decline, and tempo is one of the reasonable explanations for boredom that resonate with my experience. I personally found her (mid-career) slow repertoire boring. I tended to drift away from her a little. Maybe I'm the only one out of the others who has landed on this, but in my view there is a reasonable nexus between her vocal problems –> tempo/repertoire choices –> boredom –> and fan number decline. Again, it is a small component, but I suggest that it plays a non-zero role in her career decline. What a coincidence seeing your name… this is pre Champions League semi final a few hours ago in Dortmund… no need of pop stars…no need of lame anthem singers.no need of the military comedy circus….or lame super bowl half time breaks/shows |
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Post by msims on May 1, 2024 18:02:24 GMT -5
True, she's had a lot of success even without training, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try to be the best that you can be if people are paying to hear you sing.Not to mention she claims to be a perfectionist. Has "Quarterback Jack" or "1 Guest" been to any of her concerts and heard her sing live or are they basing this on what others have written? Also have you asked Lisa at the time or in any of the q&a's shes done, have they asked her about coaching? One needs to have credibility and knowledge to get into a discussion about these things, if you think you can just write stuff behind a guest account to manipulate, not happening. |
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Post by Quarterback Jack on May 1, 2024 19:29:11 GMT -5
True, she's had a lot of success even without training, but it certainly doesn't hurt to try to be the best that you can be if people are paying to hear you sing.Not to mention she claims to be a perfectionist. Has "Quarterback Jack" or "1 Guest" been to any of her concerts and heard her sing live or are they basing this on what others have written? Also have you asked Lisa at the time or in any of the q&a's shes done, have they asked her about coaching? One needs to have credibility and knowledge to get into a discussion about these things, if you think you can just write stuff behind a guest account to manipulate, not happening. Ten Jackie concerts in six states over seven years. Beyond that you do not need to know who I am. It's none of your business, so relax. By the way, wouldn't you just love to know who I am, and I'd actually love to see the look on your face when you realize you still don't know who I am. I have nothing to do with you. You don't deserve this reply – however I've seen you play the "I don't know who you are so therefore you have no credibility" game one too many times. I made valid points, so respond to the points. Ad hominem is the weakest and laziest form of argument. Be better. |
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Post by richard on May 1, 2024 20:50:59 GMT -5
Rickky has a history of spamming children and then lying/trolling by putting words in fans mouths, so no need to fall for it. No adult grown up follows children or cares about their progress, only Rickky. Updated: Jackie still has a career after more than a decade and that speaks to her so called "Mom/Pop management" All the ones I follow are all grown up except for Jackie who still isn't mature enough to make it on her own. Like usual Mike was with her in that last instagram. |
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