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Post by 1 Guest on May 1, 2024 10:30:56 GMT -5
If a perfectionist really wants to sing classical music properly, then YES, they would torture oneself with years of training. If they choose to be mediocre, then don't bother, and maybe end up having to abandon the 'good stuff' for pop crap. You are such a musical snob. Yuck!  Far from it. It's not me who thinks that people who enjoy pop are ignorant sh!ts and trailer trash. That would be BOGC. |
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Post by BOGC on May 1, 2024 10:54:37 GMT -5
You are such a musical snob. Yuck! Far from it. It's not me who thinks that people who enjoy pop are ignorant sh!ts and trailer trash. That would be BOGC. One can enjoy a little of it, but not exclusively. Trash is everywhere; but what little classical trash there is, has been forgotten, sometimes lost entirely (not worth re-copying), sometimes remembered only by a handful of music historians. If something is widely remembered after a decade, maybe it's not cr@p. Better if it lasts longer than a lifespan. If it only survives a month or a year, it's hit or miss. Time is the great trash remover, whether lame art or human trash. |
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Post by donkey on May 1, 2024 11:13:04 GMT -5
Far from it. It's not me who thinks that people who enjoy pop are ignorant sh!ts and trailer trash. That would be BOGC. One can enjoy a little of it, but not exclusively. Trash is everywhere; but what little classical trash there is, has been forgotten, sometimes lost entirely (not worth re-copying), sometimes remembered only by a handful of music historians. If something is widely remembered after a decade, maybe it's not cr@p. Better if it lasts longer than a lifespan. If it only survives a month or a year, it's hit or miss. Time is the great trash remover, whether lame art or human trash. Music, singing, performing...is an art form. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Focusing on technical training for singers in the public market is folly. It's trying to make it more objective science. But the vast majority of fans only care about how it hits them in the "feels", not if they are using the "correct" singing technique. YouTube is littered with vocal coaches/teachers reacting to singer's performances, who while they note are clearly not classically trained, are still providing uniquely beautiful performances. I wouldn't call any music that a segment of the population enjoys "trash". For instance, I've never liked most rap at all...in fact I tend to hate it. But I recognize there is both a skill/talent present and an audience that loves it. |
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Post by BOGC on May 1, 2024 11:21:04 GMT -5
One can enjoy a little of it, but not exclusively. Trash is everywhere; but what little classical trash there is, has been forgotten, sometimes lost entirely (not worth re-copying), sometimes remembered only by a handful of music historians. If something is widely remembered after a decade, maybe it's not cr@p. Better if it lasts longer than a lifespan. If it only survives a month or a year, it's hit or miss. Time is the great trash remover, whether lame art or human trash. Music, singing, performing...is an art form. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Focusing on technical training for singers in the public market is folly. It's trying to make it more objective science. But the vast majority of fans only care about how it hits them in the "feels", not if they are using the "correct" singing technique. Obsessing about anything is perhaps not useful. There are some things to be said for technique. It can protect a voice while allowing it to do what it otherwise couldn't, and that doesn't HAVE to sound like a screechy lady doing Wagner. Maybe the typical listener will have no clue, but they may still appreciate the result. Heck, the longer lasting pop singers must be doing something right, or they'd have ruined their voices. |
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Post by donkey on May 1, 2024 11:23:28 GMT -5
Music, singing, performing...is an art form. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Focusing on technical training for singers in the public market is folly. It's trying to make it more objective science. But the vast majority of fans only care about how it hits them in the "feels", not if they are using the "correct" singing technique. Obsessing about anything is perhaps not useful. There are some things to be said for technique. It can protect a voice while allowing it to do what it otherwise couldn't, and that doesn't HAVE to sound like a screechy lady doing Wagner. Maybe the typical listener will have no clue, but they may still appreciate the result. Heck, the longer lasting pop singers must be doing something right, or they'd have ruined their voices. Damaging the voice with improper technique is a different discussion, and some have no doubt done that. On the other hand the are countless untrained musical legends with no training who have had full careers and their voices survived just fine. |
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Post by BOGC on May 1, 2024 12:16:55 GMT -5
Obsessing about anything is perhaps not useful. There are some things to be said for technique. It can protect a voice while allowing it to do what it otherwise couldn't, and that doesn't HAVE to sound like a screechy lady doing Wagner. Maybe the typical listener will have no clue, but they may still appreciate the result. Heck, the longer lasting pop singers must be doing something right, or they'd have ruined their voices. Damaging the voice with improper technique is a different discussion, and some have no doubt done that. On the other hand the are countless untrained musical legends with no training who have had full careers and their voices survived just fine. There are also quite a few that have had at least some training if not years and years, and just didn't make a big deal about it. The amount of pop that borrows from classical is absolutely insane. That wouldn't be the case if the people that created it were ignorant. |
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Post by richard on May 1, 2024 12:47:08 GMT -5
Obsessing about anything is perhaps not useful. There are some things to be said for technique. It can protect a voice while allowing it to do what it otherwise couldn't, and that doesn't HAVE to sound like a screechy lady doing Wagner. Maybe the typical listener will have no clue, but they may still appreciate the result. Heck, the longer lasting pop singers must be doing something right, or they'd have ruined their voices. Damaging the voice with improper technique is a different discussion, and some have no doubt done that. On the other hand the are countless untrained musical legends with no training who have had full careers and their voices survived just fine. Anyone remember this girl she won Sweden's got talent when she was 10 yr old, 2 years before Jackie was on AGT
Jackie's fans laughed at her saying her voice wouldn't last till she was 14. She used her winnings to come to the USA to look for a label and they told her to come back when she grows up. Maybe they should have told Jackie the same thing but Jackie is 24 and still hasn't grown up.
She took dancing lessons and what ever she though that could help launch her career than waited till she was 15 and then got back into music, by then being out of the spotlight for 5 years she lost that cute little innocent girl image that Jackie wanted to portray (The daughter grandfathers would want). When making her comeback there were no more covers she just did original music.
Now she is doing tours in big venues around the world.
I once said one of the best endorsements a singer can have is for some of Jackie's fans to say they won't make it.
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Post by Quarterback Jack on May 1, 2024 12:51:29 GMT -5
Vocal training/coaching, does NOT change a singers natural tone. Why am I getting the feeling that some people think that the goal of vocal coaching is opera? Classical training has not been a hotbed issue since the opera snob wars on the Amazon forum. Vocal training is basic to all singers. How not to damage you instrument. Pop, hip-hop, rock, any - they all can benefit from knowing how to breathe, how to position and transition registers, how to not damage anything.
Why does a quarterback need a coach? If the coach is so good, why doesn't the coach play instead? (One of the ridiculous arguments on the Amazon forum)
The big reason Jackie needs coaching is her breathing issues. A coach isn't going to try to make her an opera singer, instead they are going to help her get through Behind My Eyes and Somewhere Over the Rainbow without having to breathe several times during each phrase. Jackie will sound like Jackie. The argument against coaching seems more like an argument that Jackie is so naturally gifted that she doesn't need to be shown how to do anything. That's B.S., Jackie needs to be shown how to sing properly, period.
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Post by BOGC on May 1, 2024 12:52:00 GMT -5
I once said one of the best endorsements a singer can have is for some of Jackie's fans to say they won't make it.
Reasonable people shouldn't say that, nor wish for it, and your always taking the most unreasonable as typical is neither accurate nor fair. But they needn't be interested in every new young singer. There aren't enough hours in a day. The only surviving one of the young ones that I still follow a bit (only a bit, even I can't handle a nearly 100% classical diet) is Sterre van Boxtel; unlike Amira Willighagen, she doesn't hurt my ears. For some of us, pitch really does matter. |
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Post by Socal Fan on May 1, 2024 12:58:56 GMT -5
The amount of pop that borrows from classical is absolutely insane. That wouldn't be the case if the people that created it were ignorant. Exactly! This shows that even the most boring trash can be salvaged if it is recycled with sufficient creativity and talent. |
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Post by donkey on May 1, 2024 13:14:57 GMT -5
Vocal training/coaching, does NOT change a singers natural tone. Why am I getting the feeling that some people think that the goal of vocal coaching is opera? Classical training has not been a hotbed issue since the opera snob wars on the Amazon forum. Vocal training is basic to all singers. How not to damage you instrument. Pop, hip-hop, rock, any - they all can benefit from knowing how to breathe, how to position and transition registers, how to not damage anything. Why does a quarterback need a coach? If the coach is so good, why doesn't the coach play instead? (One of the ridiculous arguments on the Amazon forum) The big reason Jackie needs coaching is her breathing issues. A coach isn't going to try to make her an opera singer, instead they are going to help her get through Behind My Eyes and Somewhere Over the Rainbow without having to breathe several times during each phrase. Jackie will sound like Jackie. The argument against coaching seems more like an argument that Jackie is so naturally gifted that she doesn't need to be shown how to do anything. That's B.S., Jackie needs to be shown how to sing properly, period. Nobody is saying (hopefully) that a little vocal training might not be helpful in some aspects. But, it certainly isn't required to have success in the music industry, and it certainly has nothing to do with the current state of Jackie's career. It's more like, "Jackie's career declined for the reasons we have previously stated on this forum. Oh, and by the way, a little vocal training to help with her breathing technique wouldn't hurt any." lol |
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Post by donkey on May 1, 2024 13:20:06 GMT -5
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Post by eulenspiegel on May 1, 2024 13:43:21 GMT -5
Strip club energy? lol  |
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Post by eulenspiegel on May 1, 2024 13:45:48 GMT -5
Strip club energy? lol What is the sense? What sense it does it make musically? Totally stupid |
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Post by donkey on May 1, 2024 13:52:36 GMT -5
Strip club energy? lol How does a fully dressed woman looking at the city from a balcony/rooftop give you stripper vibes? That says far more about your mind than anything Jackie is doing here. lol |
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