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Post by 1 Guest on Aug 24, 2024 18:37:13 GMT -5
Songwriters always got a cut of the profits if someone covered their songs that were so old they were already in the public domain. So I'd think that Jackie had to pay Judy Collins for the songs of COT because I doubt there were in the public domain already. And if any of Jackie's COT songs got airplay, Judy would have been paid for each spin, not Jackie. So songwriters can do pretty good when people cover their songs. CoT was a cover of Joni Mitchell songs. Judy Collins did release a version of Joni's perhaps most famous song Both Sides Now, before Joni herself did. Oops, you're right, sorry. I mixed them up. I shouldn't have because I never liked any of Joni's music. But she's the one who might have earned a bit of $$$ from COT.
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Post by msims on Aug 24, 2024 19:27:28 GMT -5
The song writers make deals with the artist. Not sure how streaming would even come into play. I would imagine they get paid by how well the singer does. But any real deals would be made between the artist and the writer. Songwriters always got a cut of the profits if someone covered their songs that were so old they were already in the public domain. So I'd think that Jackie had to pay Judy Collins for the songs of COT because I doubt there were in the public domain already. And if any of Jackie's COT songs got airplay, Judy would have been paid for each spin, not Jackie. So songwriters can do pretty good when people cover their songs. www.billboard.com/music/country/tracy-chapman-reacts-luke-combs-fast-car-cover-1235367446Combs' version has generated at least $500,000 in global publishing royalties (msims note: this was over a year ago so more now), Billboard estimates, with the bulk going to Chapman who owns both the writers' and publisher's share of the song.
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 24, 2024 20:36:42 GMT -5
The song writers make deals with the artist. Not sure how streaming would even come into play. I would imagine they get paid by how well the singer does. But any real deals would be made between the artist and the writer. Songwriters always got a cut of the profits if someone covered their songs that were so old they were already in the public domain. So I'd think that Jackie had to pay Judy Collins for the songs of COT because I doubt there were in the public domain already. And if any of Jackie's COT songs got airplay, Judy would have been paid for each spin, not Jackie. So songwriters can do pretty good when people cover their songs. The payment for artists and songwriters is separate. The roughly $0.02 per stream are broken down under the percentages mentioned here: www.billboard.com/pro/music-streaming-royalty-payments-explained-song-profits/Jackie would get 16% ($0.0032 per stream). As songwriter, Joni would get 9.4% ($0.0018 per stream). Joni also owns her own publishing, so you can double that to $0.0036 per stream.
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 24, 2024 20:45:43 GMT -5
Songwriters always got a cut of the profits if someone covered their songs that were so old they were already in the public domain. So I'd think that Jackie had to pay Judy Collins for the songs of COT because I doubt there were in the public domain already. And if any of Jackie's COT songs got airplay, Judy would have been paid for each spin, not Jackie. So songwriters can do pretty good when people cover their songs. www.billboard.com/music/country/tracy-chapman-reacts-luke-combs-fast-car-cover-1235367446Combs' version has generated at least $500,000 in global publishing royalties (msims note: this was over a year ago so more now), Billboard estimates, with the bulk going to Chapman who owns both the writers' and publisher's share of the song. That is publishing royalties. Luke Combs doesn't get a cent out of it and shouldn't because he neither published nor wrote it. The small amount that doesn't go to Chapman goes to either ASCAP or BMI. Combs gets paid out of the recorded music section of the royalties as do labels. Publishers and songwriters get paid from performance and mechanicals sections. www.billboard.com/pro/music-streaming-royalty-payments-explained-song-profits/
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Post by The Party's Over on Aug 26, 2024 1:27:39 GMT -5
This forum is dead. SoCal, please kill this forum. Think of how easy life will be when you don't have to hoe the weeds from this website. Freedom. Jackie is currently looking at community college catalogs, Mike is dreaming of a life of luxury, Msims... never mind. All characters in the Caz show spend more time at the craft table than on set. It's time to give up hope. Your curiosity about her career has been stretched to breaking, like a dried-out rubber band that has no stretch left. All the characters that were here in the beginning are tired, disinterested, or dead. The only ones left are here out of habit. Except for sims (whose mission is to bend the arc of history toward not-this-forum), we're all just weary of the same old stuff. Poor Jackie. We kinda love her, but she's history for now. Let us know what you're up to from time to time, Jackie. Make this place not exist. It's in your power. Maybe Donkey will start a new one, and sims and dizzy can go harass him there. Let go. Let us go. Fly, be free. Delete it all.
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Post by BOGC on Aug 26, 2024 1:44:03 GMT -5
This forum is dead. SoCal, please kill this forum. Think of how easy life will be when you don't have to hoe the weeds from this website. Freedom. Jackie is currently looking at community college catalogs, Mike is dreaming of a life of luxury, Msims... never mind. All characters in the Caz show spend more time at the craft table than on set. It's time to give up hope. Your curiosity about her career has been stretched to breaking, like a dried-out rubber band that has no stretch left. All the characters that were here in the beginning are tired, disinterested, or dead. The only ones left are here out of habit. Except for sims (whose mission is to bend the arc of history toward not-this-forum), we're all just weary of the same old stuff. Poor Jackie. We kinda love her, but she's history for now. Let us know what you're up to from time to time, Jackie. Make this place not exist. It's in your power. Maybe Donkey will start a new one, and sims and dizzy can go harass him there. Let go. Let us go. Fly, be free. Delete it all. Nobody has glued you to a keyboard, nor locked your browser to this site. There ARE dry spells, and sometimes it seems like it might be better if people just said nothing when there was no new information and the old information had all the flavor cooked out of it.
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Post by Socal Fan on Aug 26, 2024 6:41:07 GMT -5
Poor Jackie. We kinda love her, but she's history for now. It's not over till it's over.
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Post by colt46 on Aug 26, 2024 6:57:09 GMT -5
We can talk about other singers if Jackie’s career is over, just rename it !
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Post by colt46 on Aug 26, 2024 6:58:11 GMT -5
We have off topic forums also ! So this forum still has a lot to offer!
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Post by colt46 on Aug 26, 2024 6:59:25 GMT -5
Hey The party’s over, you don’t have to come here !
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Post by colt46 on Aug 26, 2024 10:44:21 GMT -5
There are a lot of singers , so we have plenty to talk about! Just put a generic title on top of this forum!
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Post by donkey on Aug 26, 2024 11:23:25 GMT -5
Poor Jackie. We kinda love her, but she's history for now. It's not over till it's over. Yeah, dont listen to the Party Pooper. Jackie still gives us stuff to talk about, and we dont just talk about her. It' ain't over until the fat lady sings.
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Post by colt46 on Aug 26, 2024 12:17:29 GMT -5
Thats right we talk about other singers!
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 26, 2024 14:03:41 GMT -5
Since there has been some misinformation present, let me break down how Spotify has been paying everyone the last five years. At the end I will briefly mention what is changing for songwriters.
Of particular interest is this graphic that I will be referring to in what follows:
Two thirds of Spotify's revenue (the other third is Spotify's) is for payment for music streams. This goes into three pools as agreed upon by existing contracts. They are the recorded music pool (money sent to the label), the performance pool (money sent to the professional associations like BMI and ASCAP), and the mechanicals pool (money sent to the publishers). Labels, radio stations, etc., have existing agreements with the publishing organizations that specify the performance money as a percentage of income and that would be one of the points the labels would insist upon. The professional organizations take 12% of the performance pool and split the rest between publisher and songwriter (44% each). The recorded music pool gets 80% of the payments for streams. The labels pay the artists 20% of that money and keep 80%. This is a point where artists have a legitimate beef. The 80/20 split made much more sense when the labels had to actually produce, record, and manufacture records and then send people all over the country to beg (or bribe) radio stations to play their releases. Now they manufacture nothing and most major radio stations have playlists made at one corporate office in NYC or LA or Nashville where the labels are located. So why do they still need 80%? Still, the successful artists are not starving. The problems arise when a label suckers some naive newly signed artist to borrow a lot of money from them to sink into their own tour promotion. Then they take the money out of their earnings and if the artist doesn't recoup it on the tour they are essentially back where they started. The ones with smart management go low key and tour as opening acts for more successful artists, use social media and word of mouth to slowly build their audience, and then borrow the money when they are successful enough to pay it back. Billie Eilish and Tate McRae spent years building up before they headlined their own big tour. The remaining 10% goes to mechanicals. This remaining 10% of payments is what goes directly to the publisher who takes half and gives the other half to the songwriter. If the songwriter owns their songs, it goes directly to them. This is the most vulnerable part of the categories since that is what Spotify decided unilaterally. The labels only cared about their share and not violating existing agreements with professional organizations. The remainder was on a whim by Spotify. On this existing practice, the artist would end up with 20% of 80% or 16% of payments. The label ends up with 80% of 80% or 64% of payments. The professional organizations get 12% of 10% or 1.2% of payments. The publishers and songwriters each get 44% of 10% and 50% of 10% or 4.4% and 5% or 9.4% of payments.
The question then is what exactly are payments? Well, things that go in those three pools can vary by country, by plan (free ad-supported or no-ad paid subscription, by numbers of subscribers, by average usage, etc.). If you are a small artist with streams less that 50,000 a month, it can vary greatly. Once you get in six figures per month, statistical norms start taking over just as they do in every other phenomena in the universe. By 500,000 streams per month, you pretty much have a statistical certainty of where it will fall. By taking into consideration the artists who have leaked their payments online (many times to complain about it) and the corporate revenue statements by Spotify, it is pretty much a certainly that the payments have ended up being $0.02 per stream. Then you get $0.0128 ps for the label, $0.0032 ps for the artist, $0.00188 ps each for both publisher and songwriter, and 0.00024 ps for professional organizations.
The problem now for songwriters is that Spotify has begun books for stream and they place the book publishers strictly in mechanicals. This actually makes sense since there is no recorded music being performed. However, the mechanical pool will only add the difference (if a subscriber adds books) between the music and combined rate while withdrawing the entire earned money for the books from their pool. It comes down to labels have a contract (with professional organizations having one vicariously through the labels) and book publishers have a contract, but songwriting people are just kind of left getting whatever crumbs are left. The only money they are assured is through the professional organizations but their pay per stream on the mechanicals will undoubtedly collapse.
Let's say you are a singer-songwriter. Most songs are written with other people and half of that is assured through the pro organizations. The impact thus is not devastating as you can continue being paid for your recordings, touring, and likely have non-musical sources of income through social media, personal appearances, etc.. If you are strictly a songwriter, however, this could be half your income being decimated. As I said before, those negotiating contracts look out for themselves. Those who depend upon the good will of others are left holding the bag.
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Post by richard on Aug 26, 2024 14:57:21 GMT -5
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