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Post by BOGC on Apr 15, 2020 13:28:19 GMT -5
I don't see much point myself in second-guessing most of what has or is being done (outside of China's, at a minimum, gross bungling and coverup). Here are the Covid death tolls today: Singapore 10, Hong Kong 4, Taiwan 6, Korea 225. USA 27,167. So why did China's "gross bungling and coverup" affect us so much more than those other countries? Because America's negligence and denial was a far bigger factor than China's "gross bungling and coverup". And Trump's frantic efforts to scapegoat China and WHO don't hold up to logical scrutiny. Because all those countries got the exact same information from China and WHO as America did - the difference is that those countries chose to act rather than deny. Bull. If you believe that, you've bought onto most of the MSM, who are dupes of, if not willing collaborators with our enemies, in promoting misinformation and divisiveness. At no time were we negligent or in denial. The experts advised, and Trump took their advice, period. Maybe if we had someone gifted with magic foresight, we could have rebuilt previously depleted stockpiles in advance of this; but that's about the ONLY thing that wasn't right, aside from the usual procedures simply not being up to this (the week delay due to initially defective CDC test; nobody else offered us their test, and we usually make our own); and someone that hates red tape was probably the best to light a fire under some @$$es and streamline the usual procedures. www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-trump-fired-pandemic-team/partly-false-claim-trump-fired-pandemic-response-team-in-2018-idUSKBN21C32Mwww.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/03/fact-check-did-obama-administration-deplete-n-95-mask-stockpile/5114319002/www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/09/the_coronavirus_trumps_medical_advice_was_contradictory_inconsistent_--_and_wrong_142898.html(yes, that last one is slanted, but it cites plenty of quotes)
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 15, 2020 13:49:29 GMT -5
Was it also Pres. Trump's fault that Europe has had so many cases and deaths? Europe's deaths are not Trump's fault. European governments were every bit as incompetent as Trump. I'm sure we all find that to be a great source of solace. (But the German government seems to be less incompetent given their far lower death rate.)
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 15, 2020 14:07:00 GMT -5
The experts advised, and Trump took their advice, period. Maybe if we had someone gifted with magic foresight ... Has Trump taken the experts advice on climate change? Building a wall on the Mexican border? On de-funding WHO? He uses experts only when they are a convenient excuse. We obviously need to find those people with magic foresight who seem to exist only in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea. Magic foresight seems to be sorely lacking in American and Europe.
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 15, 2020 14:23:14 GMT -5
You're basing that on what? Links to proof of that, please. The statistics are from standard sources. Trump's incompetence is my opinion so that comes from my mind. It sure seems like the Asian population was spared. China may have allowed the new Wuhan virus to spread across the world by allowing international flights to and from Hubei province, the epicenter of the outbreak, while taking stronger measures to ensure the virus didn’t spread within China. Why was that? It is not China's responsibility to ban international flights. It is up to each country to take whatever steps necessary to protect themselves. China did not ban flights to Singapore, HK, Taiwan or Korea. China took stringent steps to protect its own citizens. So did Singapore, HK Taiwan and Korea. It makes no sense for the US to complain that China did not take sufficient steps to protect Americans. That was Trump's job.
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Post by 1 Guest on Apr 15, 2020 14:28:19 GMT -5
The experts advised, and Trump took their advice, period. Maybe if we had someone gifted with magic foresight ... Has Trump taken the experts advice on climate change? Building a wall on the Mexican border? On de-funding WHO? He uses experts only when they are a convenient excuse. We obviously need to find those people with magic foresight who seem to exist only in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea. Magic foresight seems to be sorely lacking in American and Europe. Had China taken the experts advice on climate change? Experts advice about the wall depends on whether or not they want the country overrun with illegals. As far as de-funding WHO goes, let China pay to fund them. They benefited and pay next to nothing. We got screwed, so screw them.
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Post by 1 Guest on Apr 15, 2020 14:36:00 GMT -5
You're basing that on what? Links to proof of that, please. The statistics are from standard sources. Trump's incompetence is my opinion so that comes from my mind. It sure seems like the Asian population was spared. China may have allowed the new Wuhan virus to spread across the world by allowing international flights to and from Hubei province, the epicenter of the outbreak, while taking stronger measures to ensure the virus didn’t spread within China. Why was that? It is not China's responsibility to ban international flights. It is up to each country to take whatever steps necessary to protect themselves. China did not ban flights to Singapore, HK, Taiwan or Korea. China took stringent steps to protect its own citizens. So did Singapore, HK Taiwan and Korea. It makes no sense for the US to complain that China did not take sufficient steps to protect Americans. That was Trump's job. The statistics are from what standard sources? No one has any idea how long the Wuhan flu was here yet alone how many people were infected and died from it. No one. And no one still knows how many people were infected with very mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. It's pretty damn hard to take steps against something that no one, not even the Democrats, thought was transferable from human to human, and we didn't know because we were LIED to. Go back and listen to what Cuomo was saying, and what Fauci had to say about it. Why didn't he know? He's strongly associated with WHO and Bill Gates. Why didn't they tell him, or did they and he was lying too? Hmmmm. Go and watch Nancy Pelosi near the end of Feb., in China Town, telling people to shop, go to eat, etc. That was nearly a month after xenophobic President Trump did what he did.
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Post by BOGC on Apr 15, 2020 15:01:18 GMT -5
The experts advised, and Trump took their advice, period. Maybe if we had someone gifted with magic foresight ... Has Trump taken the experts advice on climate change? Building a wall on the Mexican border? On de-funding WHO? He uses experts only when they are a convenient excuse. We obviously need to find those people with magic foresight who seem to exist only in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea. Magic foresight seems to be sorely lacking in American and Europe. I hope he doesn't take their advice on any of those three points. The kind of economic damage we have now is what we'd have, if not worse, from rapid elimination of fossil fuels...and the market is getting there anyway. My next car will be a Tesla, not because I think climate change is a grave threat, but because they now meet my expectations in a vehicle, and have the additional advantages of quiet and lower maintenance. Most auto makers are working on electrics if not already selling them. To the extent the problem is real, the market will solve it with minimal government intervention. Likewise, I think walls do work; not perfectly, and not alone, but as a part of in-depth stopping of invasions (yes, the poor and persecuted, not to mention the criminals and smugglers, are still invaders if they come here or stay here illegally; quite different from people of perhaps the same origin that did it legally). And I think we should not only stop funding WHO, but also put every UN agency and the UN as a whole on notice that we won't put up with paying the most and getting the least deference any longer. The US is NOT remotely like those other countries (or semiautonomous areas); they're much smaller, less varied, and people there do what they're told; compulsory testing, tracing, etc is much likelier to work among sheep than among cowboys. And they're not over it, they're finding that it'll start over unless they keep screening, testing and tracing.
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Post by eulenspiegel on Apr 15, 2020 16:58:55 GMT -5
Was it also Pres. Trump's fault that Europe has had so many cases and deaths? Europe's deaths are not Trump's fault. European governments were every bit as incompetent as Trump. I'm sure we all find that to be a great source of solace. (But the German government seems to be less incompetent given their far lower death rate.) Six hours ago - Chancellor Merkel, Bavaria Prime Minister Söder, Hamburg Mayor Tschentner, Vice Chancellor Scholz (Finance Secretary) If an English translation available I will post. But we also have some stupid politicians...Merkel announced that they found a compromise...starting to open schools slowly in steps with graduation classes after careful preparations first at May 4...but only 10minutes later Laschet, Ministerpräsident of NRW announced...NRW will start this coming Monday...:facepalm:
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Post by 1 Guest on Apr 15, 2020 17:26:41 GMT -5
Trump defunds WHO - a 'discredited organisation not doing the job we paid for' \
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 15, 2020 18:29:07 GMT -5
Trump defunds WHO - a 'discredited organisation not doing the job we paid for' Interesting, who knew Australia had its own Fox Network. But not to worry. President Biden will rejoin WHO.
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Post by 1 Guest on Apr 15, 2020 18:36:56 GMT -5
Trump defunds WHO - a 'discredited organisation not doing the job we paid for' Interesting, who knew Australia had its own Fox Network. But not to worry. President Biden will rejoin WHO. You bet he will. He'll do exactly what he's told to do.
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Post by outlier on Apr 15, 2020 20:28:38 GMT -5
I don't see much point myself in second-guessing most of what has or is being done (outside of China's, at a minimum, gross bungling and coverup). Here are the Covid death tolls today: Singapore 10, Hong Kong 4, Taiwan 6, Korea 225. USA 27,167. So why did China's "gross bungling and coverup" affect us so much more than those other countries? Because America's negligence and denial was a far bigger factor than China's "gross bungling and coverup". And Trump's frantic efforts to scapegoat China and WHO don't hold up to logical scrutiny. Because all those countries got the exact same information from China and WHO as America did - the difference is that those countries chose to act rather than deny. There are many factors that influence the progression of the pandemic: weather, the time of seeding (later is better since you have more warning), the distribution of population (sparse is better), the use of mass transit, the availability of personal protective gear, etc. With such a complex multivariable phenomenon, I think it is impossible to know what was responsible for the severity of the progression in the U.S. Notice the huge disparity between the severity in New York and one of the lesser affected states, while all states acted essentially equally quickly to the federal guidelines.
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Post by outlier on Apr 15, 2020 20:33:35 GMT -5
The experts advised, and Trump took their advice, period. Maybe if we had someone gifted with magic foresight ... Has Trump taken the experts advice on climate change? Building a wall on the Mexican border? On de-funding WHO? He uses experts only when they are a convenient excuse. We obviously need to find those people with magic foresight who seem to exist only in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea. Magic foresight seems to be sorely lacking in American and Europe. So are you saying Trump should not have taken the advise of his experts, or that the did the right thing in this case?
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Post by outlier on Apr 15, 2020 20:39:41 GMT -5
It is not China's responsibility to ban international flights. It is up to each country to take whatever steps necessary to protect themselves. My understanding (from mainstream news) is that China allowed international flights, but not domestic flights, out of the Wuhan region for a period of a week preceding any warning to the rest of the world about the virus.
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Post by Kanye East on Apr 15, 2020 20:45:45 GMT -5
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