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Post by msims on Apr 25, 2022 7:14:04 GMT -5
So is wikipedia OTT? Id find that amusing if I didnt get an image of you patting yourself on the back while dancing in your man panties. Its part of your Con/Gaslighting scheme game. First you post as Soc then Yazzy when I respond with facts, you respond as amg1977, backing yourself up as donkey. If only you put all that energy into promoting your Brat (it only takes 30 seconds to start a new proboards). First ive already given you a clear definition of CC. The subject of the CC Category being removed at the time was brought up on amazon with Lisa. Trolls have in the years since then used it to belittle Jackie even though it was eliminated prior to DWM being released and after OHN in April 2011, so she was never eligible. Trolls are the only ones who were wrong. My entire point for years was that it was never awarded to mainstream CC vocalists (such as Pavarotti, Bocelli, etc), they instead awarded it to instrumentalists (10 out of the 12 years). I don't care whether you think im right or not. Ill ask you once again what is the streaming equivalent units of over 3m+ units sold? Its always about marketing the material in concert which she already has begun to and performing from the album on tv. Jackie has a much older Fan Base who prefers to buy albums and streaming numbers are counted towards the album as equivalent units. There is also a Billboard chart for Albums Sales only and she should qualify for a position on the C/CC Billboard Charts too. This is a prior example of you belittling Jackie/being a Troll. In the prior decade the only other Masked Singer contestants that had 1m+ selling albums were Lil Wayne and Hunter Hayes. She is relevant because she sold 3m+ albums and has the record for the youngest selling platinum artist and highest charting youngest artist on the B200. She/her family are in a better position now than they were in 2011 because she/parents don't have to give up income from her touring and merch sales in a 360 deal or pay back albums advances. They actually have money. Social media is too toxic for young women with any kind of fame and all women have body issues. Her taking a break from social media was very understandable and her fans understood. |
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Post by amg1977 on Apr 25, 2022 9:03:02 GMT -5
Wake up, get a cup of coffee, and sit down on my computer for another dose of our favorite OTT's bleating. Looks like I hit a nerve with this one.  Id find that amusing if I didnt get an image of you patting yourself on the back while dancing in your man panties. Its part of your Con/Gaslighting scheme game. First you post as Soc then Yazzy when I respond with facts, you respond as amg1977, backing yourself up as donkey. If only you put all that energy into promoting your Brat (it only takes 30 seconds to start a new proboards). First ive already given you a clear definition of CC. The subject of the CC Category being removed at the time was brought up on amazon with Lisa. Trolls have in the years since then used it to belittle Jackie even though it was eliminated prior to DWM being released and after OHN in April 2011, so she was never eligible. Trolls are the only ones who were wrong. My entire point for years was that it was never awarded to mainstream CC vocalists (such as Pavarotti, Bocelli, etc), they instead awarded it to instrumentalists (10 out of the 12 years). I don't care whether you think im right or not. I wonder if Sims is aware of how completely bonkers the sentences above make him look to everyone reading this? So Cliff ... I mean Sims, what color is the sky in your world? Since Sims doesn't seem to recall the context of the discussion (not that Sims ever pays attention to the context of any discussion before he veers off into unknown territory), let us remind everyone. Chris R had asked Sims what he thought about Emily Bear winning a Grammy and Sims responded to defend Jackie's honor.
Now everyone except Sims realizes that Chris R was just egging Sims on knowing that Sims could never miss an opportunity to defend Maiden Jackie's honor. In reality there is no need to defend someone on the charges of not getting a Grammy. Both great artists and terrible ones have received Grammys. It is less about musical quality than name recognition (particularly in niche genres) and a coronation for the artist of the moment (Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo). But Sims cannot let it go and feels the need to make up excuses for something that needs no excusing.
Sims actually made a decent point with possible resistance to giving a Best New Artist nomination to a 10 year old and I added the possibility of a bias against talent show winners rather than those who struggled for years, etc.. No problem so far but then Sims stated: "There was never a CC Vocalist Grammy, it was only instrumental." That was just wrong. The only CC category in the Grammys that I am aware existed ( and unlike Sims I believe I could be wrong - I just couldn't find info about any other) was the Best CC Album category and that was open to both instrumentalists and vocalists and, for its brief history, some vocalists won it. That is a fact. He then tried to defend himself by stating that the album was not really CC, but apparently the industry disagreed. More importantly, however, the question was not whether the nominated albums deserved their nomination but who was eligible. The fact that vocalists were nominated (even if they didn't deserve it), shows they were eligible.
Now Sims states "My entire point for years was that it was never awarded to mainstream CC vocalists (such as Pavarotti, Bocelli, etc), they instead awarded it to instrumentalists (10 out of the 12 years)." But that is not what the dispute was about at all. Sims stated that only instrumentalists were eligible and he was wrong. This is a pattern with Sims: he spews out supposed facts as he if he were Moses handing down the Ten Commandments and and then spends the next few weeks trying to rewrite history that everyone here saw in real time. In the future, Sims, just Google it first. It's not that hard to figure it out. The great irony, of course, is that Jackie did not even need defending on this one. As I pointed out on my first response to Sims (but apparently I should have connected the dots for him), Jackie did not reach prominence until late 2010, the Grammys go on an October-September cycle, so she would have been first nominated on the 2012 Grammys. However, by then, the category had been eliminated. So Sims wasted his time defending Jackie for not winning an award that did not exist during the most popular part of her career. For the record, I do believe Jackie should have earned at least a nomination for Best New Artist that year. That award should be judge on a combination of current success and potential. Even if you believed her chart success was a temporary thing, she certainly had the potential to be prominent within her genre. Ill ask you once again what is the streaming equivalent units of over 3m+ units sold? Its always about marketing the material in concert which she already has begun to and performing from the album on tv. Jackie has a much older Fan Base who prefers to buy albums and streaming numbers are counted towards the album as equivalent units. There is a also a Billboard chart for Albums Sales only and she should qualify for a position on the C/CC Billboard Charts too. This is a prior example of you belittling Jackie/being a Troll. In the prior decade the only other Masked Singer contestants that had 1m+ selling albums were Lil Wayne and Hunter Hayes. She is relevant because she sold 3m+ albums and has the record for the youngest selling platinum artist and highest charting youngest artist on the B200. She/her family are in a better position now than they were in 2011 because she/parents don't have to give up income from her touring and merch sales in a 360 deal or pay back album advances. They actually have money. Social media is too toxic for young women with any kind of fame and all women have body issues. Her taking a break from social media was very understandable and her fans understood. The answer to the first question is 4.5 billion streams (RIAA list 1500 streams for 1 album), but what does it matter. We are both in agreement that Jackie was a major recording artist for the first half a decade after AGT. The point is rather where is her career today and in the future. What were the sales totals for The Debut?
By the way, you are wrong that she doesn't have the equivalent of pay back. Her new label (assuming it still exists) will want to get their investment back on studio time, etc unless Jackie paid out of pocket. Same for touring: Sony would advance money to hire the musicians for weeks on end so they could rehearse, produce merch, etc. That stuff still has to be done but now it has to be out of pocket without any advance from a label. It doesn't really change anything but it does restrict your ability to tour since the money has to be upfront and Sony has deeper pockets than Jackie.
Look on the bright side, Sims. Next time you post something foolish, now I've shown you how to delete your post.  |
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Post by richard on Apr 25, 2022 23:39:03 GMT -5
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Post by Grace Fan on Apr 26, 2022 12:59:24 GMT -5
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Post by Grace Fan on Apr 26, 2022 13:01:24 GMT -5
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Post by ChrisR on Apr 26, 2022 13:58:39 GMT -5
Grace's career is flying higher then a kite these days! Good for her! The key for Grace continues to be her diversifying beyond just being a song writer/singer. |
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Post by amg1977 on Apr 26, 2022 16:42:17 GMT -5
Excellent article but there is one thing mentioned that is often cited (and I initially believed) but was a conflation of separate auditions. That is the idea that Grace beat 700 other girls for the part. Actually, she was signed for the part after a screen test and no one else was considered. There were, however, 700 other girls who auditioned for the part but that was a few years before Grace.
The whole story was that Disney originally had purchased the rights to the very successful teen book and began casting for a theater released film. They cast a bunch of girls who would be in the 15-17 age range in 2016 when they would begin filming. There were 700 girls auditioned and Joey King won the role. Shortly after the announcement, an earlier role Joey King had done became a breakout role for her and her team asked Disney for more money (they had an unofficial agreement but had not yet signed the contract). Disney would not budge and the movie was temporarily shelved. When Grace broke out on AGT, Jerry Spinelli, who wrote the book and was involved in the film, stated Grace would be a perfect Stargirl but she was still too young for the role. Somehow word got back to Team Grace and someone contacted Disney and mentioned Grace was going through some major growth spurts and could probably pass for a 15 year old even though she was not yet 14. They gave her a screen test, she passed with flying colors and they assembled a cast around her (I don't know if any were leftover from the first cast), and the rest is history.
This is one of the points I have made in the past about the necessity of professional management. On the original audition, Jackie would have been the right age, she could sing, and songwriting was not a requirement (Grace had only one original on the soundtrack and that was on the closing credits). Certainly Jackie could sing and Disney was had a lot invested in getting Stargirl to the screen. This was a clear case where a professional manager would have got her an audition for it. I am not saying she would have gotten the part, but she would at least have had a chance to show her singing talent to Disney and possibly get some work with the mouse as a singer on their animated musicals. I personally always thought she would have been tailor made for a singing role as a Disney princess.
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 26, 2022 18:25:49 GMT -5
This is one of the points I have made in the past about the necessity of professional management. On the original audition, Jackie would have been the right age, she could sing, and songwriting was not a requirement (Grace had only one original on the soundtrack and that was on the closing credits). Certainly Jackie could sing and Disney was had a lot invested in getting Stargirl to the screen. This was a clear case where a professional manager would have got her an audition for it. I am not saying she would have gotten the part, but she would at least have had a chance to show her singing talent to Disney and possibly get some work with the mouse as a singer on their animated musicals. I personally always thought she would have been tailor made for a singing role as a Disney princess. I think it is highly unlikely that Disney would have bothered to audition Jackie for Stargirl regardless of Jackie's management. Joey King and Charlie Plummer were the actors Disney originally cast for the lead roles. They both had previous experience in lead movie/TV roles and they both had lengthy acting resumes. It is hard for me to imagine that Disney would have thought Jackie, who had never even acted in high school, could carry a leading role. Grace, who was clearly born for the role, was very much an exception. Grace did not have to act, she was simply being her usual quirky creative self. I should also point out that the lead roles in Stargirl need to sing passably but don't have to be singers. Graham Verchere, Joey King and Charlie Plummer were not singers. So the fact that Jackie was a singer gave her no advantage. The fact that Jackie was not an actor was a decisive disadvantage. Nothing I have seen suggests Jackie can act. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 26, 2022 19:04:49 GMT -5
she would at least have had a chance to show her singing talent to Disney and possibly get some work with the mouse as a singer on their animated musicals. I personally always thought she would have been tailor made for a singing role as a Disney princess. That issue has been frequently discussed by Jackie fans. But the fact is that Jackie has been singing professionally for 12 years with lots of exposure - AGT, Inauguration, PBS, concerts, etc. But not a nibble from Disney, who we must assume is always looking out for appropriate talent. I have no idea why Jackie has been passed over. It may be because they are looking more for pop than CC voices. For example, they picked Sissel for the Titanic soundtrack but they picked Celine Dion to sing My Heart Will Go On. So Dion got all the glory and Sissel remains unknown. |
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Post by donkey on Apr 26, 2022 19:14:29 GMT -5
This is one of the points I have made in the past about the necessity of professional management. On the original audition, Jackie would have been the right age, she could sing, and songwriting was not a requirement (Grace had only one original on the soundtrack and that was on the closing credits). Certainly Jackie could sing and Disney was had a lot invested in getting Stargirl to the screen. This was a clear case where a professional manager would have got her an audition for it. I am not saying she would have gotten the part, but she would at least have had a chance to show her singing talent to Disney and possibly get some work with the mouse as a singer on their animated musicals. I personally always thought she would have been tailor made for a singing role as a Disney princess. I think it is highly unlikely that Disney would have bothered to audition Jackie for Stargirl regardless of Jackie's management. Joey King and Charlie Plummer were the actors Disney originally cast for the lead roles. They both had previous experience in lead movie/TV roles and they both had lengthy acting resumes. It is hard for me to imagine that Disney would have thought Jackie, who had never even acted in high school, could carry a leading role. Grace, who was clearly born for the role, was very much an exception. Grace did not have to act, she was simply being her usual quirky creative self. I should also point out that the lead roles in Stargirl need to sing passably but don't have to be singers. Graham Verchere, Joey King and Charlie Plummer were not singers. So the fact that Jackie was a singer gave her no advantage. The fact that Jackie was not an actor was a decisive disadvantage. Nothing I have seen suggests Jackie can act. I couldn't agree with this more. Jackie's not an actor. Whether Disney wanted a singer who could act, or an actor who could sing...Jackie was neither...at least from what we've seen. In her only movie role, her acting imo was mediocre. There is a reason she was never asked to be in another movie or significant t.v. role, even though at the time she openly expressed an interest in being in more movies...her acting was very amateurish. Not bashing her...we can't all act well. Singing is her thing, not acting. |
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Post by amg1977 on Apr 26, 2022 21:54:52 GMT -5
Joey King and Charlie Plummer were the actors Disney originally cast for the lead roles. They both had previous experience in lead movie/TV roles and they both had lengthy acting resumes. Joey King is a well known actress NOW with multiple lead roles but that was certainly not the case THEN. Remember, filming was to being in 2016 and the announcement of Joey King's casting was in 2015 so it is likely the auditions took place in phases between 2014-2015. Joey King was not nearly as accomplished in 2014 as she is in 2022. That would be like saying Disney had Olivia Rodrigo's current success in mind when they cast her for a kid's show in 2016. It is hard for me to imagine that Disney would have thought Jackie, who had never even acted in high school, could carry a leading role. The fact is they auditioned over 700 girls for that role which is a fairly large number for such a specific age range. They pretty much were giving every girl with an SAG card a shot if she wanted it. Again, do I think she would have gotten the role? No. But this role was a fairly prominent one with lots of competition. There are lots of projects with both lead and supporting roles available. Grace, who was clearly born for the role, was very much an exception. Grace did not have to act, she was simply being her usual quirky creative self. I agree that Grace looked like she was created by central casting for the role but you are forgetting the difference between casting and acting. We are only talking about the casting part - getting in the door. Disney gets lots of kids auditioning that are not ready for prime time and they give them acting lessons, etc., and use them for future projects. The key is if they think there might be some possible "magic" they can take advantage of in the future. At that young age, Jackie was not yet withdrawn from the world. Some people have commented on the video she did for Justice ("Go Time") and she looked like exactly what Disney puts on their kids shows. She even smiled a lot. Just like projecting Joey's accomplishments backwards in time, I think you are doing the same with Jackie's current mental issues. I should also point out that the lead roles in Stargirl need to sing passably but don't have to be singers. Graham Verchere, Joey King and Charlie Plummer were not singers. So the fact that Jackie was a singer gave her no advantage. The fact that Jackie was not an actor was a decisive disadvantage. Nothing I have seen suggests Jackie can act. The only role that required a singing background was that of Stargirl and to a lesser extent, that of Leo. Both Joey King and Graham Verchere were primarily stage performers and had worked in musicals. So both had singing experience. For a while, Joey King used to upload her singing covers to her YouTube channel. Disney was prepared to help any actress learn the ukulele (Stargirl played the uke in the book) but didn't need that caveat for Grace. That issue has been frequently discussed by Jackie fans. But the fact is that Jackie has been singing professionally for 12 years with lots of exposure - AGT, Inauguration, PBS, concerts, etc. But not a nibble from Disney, who we must assume is always looking out for appropriate talent. I have no idea why Jackie has been passed over. Stargirl was planned as a possible franchise and Disney wanted to find something "special." They rarely go after people unless they are willing to immediately sign them if they agree. They did that for Hailee Steinfeld but she is an Oscar nominated actress. Grace was required to give a screen test and her persona screamed "I am Stargirl." There would have been no reason for them to reach out to Jackie. But they almost certainly would have given her an audition since they were leaving no rock unturned in their search. |
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Post by Disappointed on Apr 26, 2022 22:23:53 GMT -5
It is hard for me to imagine that Disney would have thought Jackie, who had never even acted in high school, could carry a leading role. This reminds me of something really hilarious. A few years ago, there were live TV showings of the movies Peter Pan and Wizard of Oz. OTTs were convinced that Jackie would be the leading actress when each of those movies were announced. It was regarding the Peter Pan movie that OTTs asked Lisa in the shout box at the old JEFC forum about it and they were so sure Lisa was just being secretive about Jackie having the lead role of Wendy, when she had almost no acting experience and would have had to do everything on live TV and remember the role and lines, etc. Lisa said "Where do you guys get this stuff? Do you just make it up?" LOL! And of course since then, a lot more has been made up that never did happen. And I am sure much more to come. |
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Post by richard on Apr 28, 2022 9:11:10 GMT -5
It is hard for me to imagine that Disney would have thought Jackie, who had never even acted in high school, could carry a leading role. This reminds me of something really hilarious. A few years ago, there were live TV showings of the movies Peter Pan and Wizard of Oz. OTTs were convinced that Jackie would be the leading actress when each of those movies were announced. It was regarding the Peter Pan movie that OTTs asked Lisa in the shout box at the old JEFC forum about it and they were so sure Lisa was just being secretive about Jackie having the lead role of Wendy, when she had almost no acting experience and would have had to do everything on live TV and remember the role and lines, etc. Lisa said "Where do you guys get this stuff? Do you just make it up?" LOL! And of course since then, a lot more has been made up that never did happen. And I am sure much more to come. Lisa called BS on many of the OTTs One thing the OTTs always site is how many albums Jackie sold. Lisa said they hardly seen any money from them. That is why they started having concerts because they weren't receiving much from record sales. There is nothing left to talk about Jackie the last thing she really did was The Masked Singer. After that just a few small concerts here and there. Than it back into hiding for Jackie with an occasional selfie. It's been well over a year since Jackie made the River music video and it seem that neither Jackie or her label has much interest in her next album. The interest in Jackie from AGT to today has dropped to about 0 and it is all her and her teams fault.
We can pretty much say now that Jackie has faded away much like her OTT fans claimed over the years all the others would fade away yet they are stronger than ever.
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Post by donkey on Apr 28, 2022 9:26:37 GMT -5
This reminds me of something really hilarious. A few years ago, there were live TV showings of the movies Peter Pan and Wizard of Oz. OTTs were convinced that Jackie would be the leading actress when each of those movies were announced. It was regarding the Peter Pan movie that OTTs asked Lisa in the shout box at the old JEFC forum about it and they were so sure Lisa was just being secretive about Jackie having the lead role of Wendy, when she had almost no acting experience and would have had to do everything on live TV and remember the role and lines, etc. Lisa said "Where do you guys get this stuff? Do you just make it up?" LOL! And of course since then, a lot more has been made up that never did happen. And I am sure much more to come. Lisa called BS on many of the OTTs One thing the OTTs always site is how many albums Jackie sold. Lisa said they hardly seen any money from them. That is why they started having concerts because they weren't receiving much from record sales. There is nothing left to talk about Jackie the last thing she really did was The Masked Singer. After that just a few small concerts here and there. Than it back into hiding for Jackie with an occasional selfie. It's been well over a year since Jackie made the River music video and it seem that neither Jackie or her label has much interest in her next album. The interest in Jackie from AGT to today has dropped to about 0 and it is all her and her teams fault.
We can pretty much say now that Jackie has faded away much like her OTT fans claimed over the years all the others would fade away yet they are stronger than ever.
Jackie's website has just had a complete makeover, and it advertises "new music coming soon". She told fans that the new album will come out in June. Expect a bunch of new tour dates to show up on her website in the next couple of months. She did an extended audio interview recently, as well as finishing up four make up concerts in a month. She's back to posting regularly on Instagram. All this while dealing with her mental health issues. She's back to scheduling her annual July concert in Ocean City. For whatever it's worth, she's close to back to where she was pre-covid. |
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Post by johnnyb on Apr 28, 2022 9:36:41 GMT -5
Lisa called BS on many of the OTTs One thing the OTTs always site is how many albums Jackie sold. Lisa said they hardly seen any money from them. That is why they started having concerts because they weren't receiving much from record sales. There is nothing left to talk about Jackie the last thing she really did was The Masked Singer. After that just a few small concerts here and there. Than it back into hiding for Jackie with an occasional selfie. It's been well over a year since Jackie made the River music video and it seem that neither Jackie or her label has much interest in her next album. The interest in Jackie from AGT to today has dropped to about 0 and it is all her and her teams fault.
We can pretty much say now that Jackie has faded away much like her OTT fans claimed over the years all the others would fade away yet they are stronger than ever.
Jackie's website has just had a complete makeover, and it advertises "new music coming soon". She told fans that the new album will come out in June. Expect a bunch of new tour dates to show up on her website in the next couple of months. She did an extended audio interview recently, as well as finishing up four make up concerts in a month. She's back to posting regularly on Instagram. All this while dealing with her mental health issues. She's back to scheduling her annual July concert in Ocean City. For whatever it's worth, she's close to back to where she was pre-covid. No offence intended Donk, but I think I would ask for a refund on those Rose colored glasses you’re wearing, they seem to be a little cloudy. 🤓 |
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