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Post by Socal Fan on Oct 10, 2023 15:38:22 GMT -5
ibb.co/KyNFZ2T ibb.co/xJNWwK5 Thanks! Both banners added. |
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Post by donkey on Oct 10, 2023 16:02:05 GMT -5
Sure, but is she talented enough to stand out amongst a large pool of similar talent? That's why I said it is a major factor, but not the only one. Other things are required on top of having significant talent including originality, persona, hard work, and even luck. I would say that singing talent is only a minor factor. Two reasons: (1) As you say, there is a "large pool of similar talent" so vocal talent does not help much to make any singer stand out from the others. (2) As I have pointed out before, many of the best known singers since the singer-songwriter era began have very average voices. I have long believed that songwriting talent and charisma are far greater factors. (Just to clarify, when I said that talent is irrelevant for success as a singer, I was referring to singing talent.) But if you didn't have significant talent, you wouldn't even be able to compete in that large pool of talent...it's a prerequisite to even get into the pool. Most big name, successful singers have a LOT of talent. Whether you or I enjoy that particular voice or not is another matter, but we can still recognize the talent. And the more talent you have, the more you will stand out in that pool and the better your odds. There are of course other significant factors, like persona, charisma(although that is a from of natural talent), originality, etc. But I contend that talent is far from insignificant...it's a huge factor. Just because talent alone doesn't guarantee you success doesn't mean it's not a huge factor. There is a reason most highly successful singers in the industry have amazing voices...talent matters. Look at it this way. You have to have the talent/amazing voice...the more you stand out from the pool vocally the better. Then, in order to claw you way to success from there against the remaining remaining contenders, that's where things like persona, originality, hard work, luck, etc. can be the decisive factor as to whether you "make it" or not. Let's take someone like Willie Nelson...technically not a good singer. But I would argue that he is still a massively talented singer. Technically good and talented aren't synonymous. Add to that he unique sound of his voice, his persona, and his playing a mean guitar and you have a star. |
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Post by colt46 on Oct 10, 2023 16:02:07 GMT -5
For a long period of time Jackie sang songs that those in her age group didn’t like ! Jackie does have talent, you don’t think so Socal Fan, I respectfully disagree with you ! So how did Jackie finish in second place on AGT, WE SEE A LOT OF CUTE LITTLE GIRLS ON AGT AND THEY DON’t make it to the finals! You base your findings on money 💰! Jackie has a beautiful voice and just because you don’t think so makes it so !
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Post by donkey on Oct 10, 2023 16:12:51 GMT -5
For a long period of time Jackie sang songs that those in her age group didn’t like ! Jackie does have talent, you don’t think so Socal Fan, I respectfully disagree with you ! So how did Jackie finish in second place on AGT, WE SEE A LOT OF CUTE LITTLE GIRLS ON AGT AND THEY DON’t make it to the finals! You base your findings on money 💰! Jackie has a beautiful voice and just because you don’t think so makes it so ! That's right. Little girl with the big voice who sounded like an angel...I think we can all agree the crazy natural vocal talent played a HUGE role in that schtick. Would she have been that successful with the same voice but as an adult...mabye not, but would she have been that successful as a little girl without the massively talented, angel like voice? No. So it was a huge component to her success. |
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Post by colt46 on Oct 10, 2023 16:25:50 GMT -5
STOP 🛑 SAYING JACKIE DOES NOT HAVE TALENT! SHE DOES HAVE TALENT ! MONEY ,MONEY TIRED OF HEARING THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO JUDGE SOMEONE IS BY THE MONEY THEY HAVE! I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH SOCAL FANS POST ABOUT JACKIE NOT HAVING TALENT!
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Post by donkey on Oct 10, 2023 16:31:33 GMT -5
STOP 🛑 SAYING JACKIE DOES NOT HAVE TALENT! SHE DOES HAVE TALENT ! MONEY ,MONEY TIRED OF HEARING THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO JUDGE SOMEONE IS BY THE MONEY THEY HAVE! I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH SOCAL FANS POST ABOUT JACKIE NOT HAVING TALENT! I dont think he says thinks she doesn't have talent. The question is, does she have enough talent to stand out in a sea of young talent her age? |
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Post by Socal Fan on Oct 10, 2023 20:54:47 GMT -5
Little girl with the big voice who sounded like an angel...I think we can all agree the crazy natural vocal talent played a HUGE role in that schtick. Would she have been that successful with the same voice but as an adult...mabye not, but would she have been that successful as a little girl without the massively talented, angel like voice? No. So it was a huge component to her success. The biggest factor in 10 year old Jackie's success was not her voice but her youth. The proof: 23 year old Jackie has just as good a voice. But as Jackie grew up, she steadily lost popularity. If her voice had been the major attraction, she would have retained her popularity. Sadly for her, she kept her voice but not her youth. And as her youth disappeared, so did her popularity. |
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Post by donkey on Oct 10, 2023 21:40:20 GMT -5
Little girl with the big voice who sounded like an angel...I think we can all agree the crazy natural vocal talent played a HUGE role in that schtick. Would she have been that successful with the same voice but as an adult...mabye not, but would she have been that successful as a little girl without the massively talented, angel like voice? No. So it was a huge component to her success. The biggest factor in 10 year old Jackie's success was not her voice but her youth. The proof: 23 year old Jackie has just as good a voice. But as Jackie grew up, she steadily lost popularity. If her voice had been the major attraction, she would have retained her popularity. Sadly for her, she kept her voice but not her youth. And as her youth disappeared, so did her popularity. I would say that it was the whole package that sold Jackie to fans on AGT. However, lots of cute, sweet young girls have appeared on AGT not done nearly as well as Jackie. The root of her success was her voice. How many people over the years raved about that pure toned, angelic voice? I was one of them. Yes, the cute, sweet girl image magnified the experience, but at the root of it was her voice...no doubt about that at all in my opinion. Jackie's career just ran its course. She was successful for a number of years, and her fan base died off over time. She was unable to re-invent herself in new genres where her voice doesn't shine as brightly. CC is what Jackie has always sung best...and its still true to this day. That's where she stands out. It's just that her CC routine is old and a bit stale today...and so are the fans who have been following her since AGT - LOL. By the way, I would also argue that Jackie's voice today isn't quite the same as it was when she was at the height of her career. I think her pitch/tone was more goosebump eliciting back then. Vocal chords do change from childhood to adult. You aren't going to sound exactly the same. |
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Post by richard on Oct 10, 2023 21:45:55 GMT -5
Little girl with the big voice who sounded like an angel...I think we can all agree the crazy natural vocal talent played a HUGE role in that schtick. Would she have been that successful with the same voice but as an adult...mabye not, but would she have been that successful as a little girl without the massively talented, angel like voice? No. So it was a huge component to her success. The biggest factor in 10 year old Jackie's success was not her voice but her youth. The proof: 23 year old Jackie has just as good a voice. But as Jackie grew up, she steadily lost popularity. If her voice had been the major attraction, she would have retained her popularity. Sadly for her, she kept her voice but not her youth. And as her youth disappeared, so did her popularity. From the very beginning AGT decided they were going to build Jackie up. With all their BS about she has perfect pitch from Judges that knew nothing about music. Lisa used to drag Jackie to singing contest through out the United State and she never won any of them. She got on AGT by luck as she couldn't make the auditions twice before. Why aren't the labels jumping at trying to sign Jackie up, it's because even though she does have a great voice she does not appeal to their audiences. A lot of which you can thank her Mom/Pop management teams. Mike-E is a fool if he thinks this new theme of Jackie's "I have more problem than you" is going to bring new fans in.
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Post by donkey on Oct 10, 2023 21:53:54 GMT -5
The biggest factor in 10 year old Jackie's success was not her voice but her youth. The proof: 23 year old Jackie has just as good a voice. But as Jackie grew up, she steadily lost popularity. If her voice had been the major attraction, she would have retained her popularity. Sadly for her, she kept her voice but not her youth. And as her youth disappeared, so did her popularity. From the very beginning AGT decided they were going to build Jackie up. With all their BS about she has perfect pitch from Judges that knew nothing about music. Lisa used to drag Jackie to singing contest through out the United State and she never won any of them. She got on AGT by luck as she couldn't make the auditions twice before. Why aren't the labels jumping at trying to sign Jackie up, it's because even though she does have a great voice she does not appeal to their audiences. A lot of which you can thank her Mom/Pop management teams. Mike-E is a fool if he thinks this new theme of Jackie's "I have more problem than you" is going to bring new fans in.
The little girl aspect helped market the whole package...no doubt about it. But I would argue that was the pure toned, angelic voice that was the main draw. The cute, sweet girl part added to it for sure, but I know my reaction to her singing on AGT....it was that incredibly pure toned voice that I was drawn to...and countless other fans have said the same thing. Jackie's sweet,cute little girl thing was factor...I agree with all of that. But the voice was at the root of it...it touched people's souls if you will. Read my last response above to Socal to get your answer about why she's no havng success today. Her career ran it s course, and she shines in the CC world far more than other genres...that's what she sings best. And she had her cc career...it just ran its course, the material got old, and her fan base died off. I do acknowledge that the cute, sweet little girl thing helped...no doubt about it. But she is still sweet and a rather adorable little thing even today, right? lol Just saying it wasn't at the heart of it...it was that pure toned voice. You guys just aren't giving enough credit to the voice, which was the main thing fans over the years have raved about. I remember fans saying things like they would play Jackie cds to their dying mother or relative, because it sounded so angelic and brought them such joy and peace. |
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Post by Painted the Tail on Oct 10, 2023 22:03:53 GMT -5
The biggest factor in 10 year old Jackie's success was not her voice but her youth. The proof: 23 year old Jackie has just as good a voice. But as Jackie grew up, she steadily lost popularity. If her voice had been the major attraction, she would have retained her popularity. Sadly for her, she kept her voice but not her youth. And as her youth disappeared, so did her popularity. I would say that it was the whole package that sold Jackie to fans on AGT. However, lots of cute, young girls have appeared on AGT not done nearly as well as Jackie. The root of her success was her voice. How many people over the years raved about that pure toned, angelic voice? I was one of them. Yes, the cute, sweet girl image magnified the experience, but at the root of it was her voice...no doubt about that at all in my opinion. Jackie's career just ran its course. She was successful for a number of years, and her fan base died off over time. She was unable to re-invent herself in new genres where her voice doesn't shine as brightly. CC is what Jackie has always sung best...and its still true to this day. That's where she stands out. It's just that her CC routine is old and a bit stale today...and so are the fans who have been following her since AGT - LOL. By the way, I would also argue that Jackie's voice today isn't quite the same as it was when she was at the height of her career. I think her pitch/tone was more goosebump eliciting back then. Vocal chords do change from childhood to adult. You aren't going to sound exactly the same. Yeah - for some reason, CC seems to be limited to a small number of songs that are repeated over and over by singers in the genre - i.e The Prayer, Con Te Partiro, etc. We can't blame Jackie for getting tired of those same old songs and for wanting to try something new. It's a little sad though, as that style was able to really highlight the fantastic bell tone she had in her youth. I was hoping that more original songs would be released similar to "Take Me There", "Open Fields of Grace" and "Go Time". IMO, the style of those songs showed a lot of potential and I favor them over those on The Debut and COT as well as her latest original music. BME is a cool song though, so we'll see what the new EP holds. |
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Post by donkey on Oct 10, 2023 22:10:11 GMT -5
I would say that it was the whole package that sold Jackie to fans on AGT. However, lots of cute, young girls have appeared on AGT not done nearly as well as Jackie. The root of her success was her voice. How many people over the years raved about that pure toned, angelic voice? I was one of them. Yes, the cute, sweet girl image magnified the experience, but at the root of it was her voice...no doubt about that at all in my opinion. Jackie's career just ran its course. She was successful for a number of years, and her fan base died off over time. She was unable to re-invent herself in new genres where her voice doesn't shine as brightly. CC is what Jackie has always sung best...and its still true to this day. That's where she stands out. It's just that her CC routine is old and a bit stale today...and so are the fans who have been following her since AGT - LOL. By the way, I would also argue that Jackie's voice today isn't quite the same as it was when she was at the height of her career. I think her pitch/tone was more goosebump eliciting back then. Vocal chords do change from childhood to adult. You aren't going to sound exactly the same. Yeah - for some reason, CC seems to be limited to a small number of songs that are repeated over and over by singers in the genre - i.e The Prayer, Con Te Partiro, etc. We can't blame Jackie for getting tired of those same old songs and for wanting to try something new. It's a little sad though, as that style was able to really highlight the fantastic bell tone she had in her youth. I was hoping that more original songs would be released similar to "Take Me There", "Open Fields of Grace" and "Go Time". IMO, the style of those songs showed a lot of potential and I favor them over those on The Debut and COT as well as her latest original music. BME is a cool song though, so we'll see what the new EP holds. I agree with everything you just said there. |
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Post by Guest 5 on Oct 10, 2023 22:26:25 GMT -5
From Youtube:
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Post by Disappointed on Oct 10, 2023 23:00:50 GMT -5
From the very beginning AGT decided they were going to build Jackie up. With all their BS about she has perfect pitch from Judges that knew nothing about music. Lisa used to drag Jackie to singing contest through out the United State and she never won any of them. She got on AGT by luck as she couldn't make the auditions twice before. You are absolutely right. She was able to sing opera songs as a young kid and she sang them better than most kids because most kids wouldn't be caught dead singing that genre. But she wasn't good enough even for Foster when he had her on his show before AGT and he passed on her, as well as AGT did TWICE. Then Lisa's pandering on CC message boards got her on the AGT Youtube show. But the BIG FACTOR that came into play was the Susan Boyle media hoopla at that time. She thrust the idea of a totally unexpected person singing that genre very well and many viewers were not that familiar with the genre and liked what they heard. And then Jackie showed up, WHEN AMERICA WAS DESPERATE FOR THEIR OWN MEDIA HERO, and she was another person, a small child, who you would not expect to sing opera/CC songs and she did better than expected due to the coaching she got from Yvie. Suddenly Foster was interested to capitalize on the hype as well. And the rest is history. As I have always said, RIGHT PLACE, RIGHT TIME. Had Emanne Beasha or Laura Bretan been on AGT at that time instead of later, it would have been one of them. But they did not have that luck even though they also had the same talent. And to many who saw Jackie, she was the first opera/CC singing kid they had heard so the others who came later did not have the same shock value, and by that time interest in the genre had faded significantly. Emanne had a shot, but Covid hit exactly when her North American tour with Andre Rieu was about to start. And that was bad luck. |
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Post by BOGC on Oct 10, 2023 23:21:13 GMT -5
In show business, you always follow the money. My sentiments exactly. There's a reason why they call it show biz. That's why I've long believed that voice and talent are irrelevant. And why my opinions are irrelevant. Money is the only thing that matters. The riffle of packs of $100 bills is not my favorite sound. |
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