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Post by richard on Sept 28, 2024 15:56:37 GMT -5
More modeling opportunities because they show their dirty pillows, fanny, and Vajayjay. This is not an Only fans discussion. Not a single one is sufficiently good in music and im not talking about just JoJo. In several words you used a talking point pushed by Rickky that Jackie's Parents didn't hire management as well as a history that is not something you would know unless you lied about being around in the first two I never thought JoJo was a real singer but she did/does quite good as an entertainer. The ones like Olivia Rodrigo (who you claimed Jackie was doing just as good as her), Tate McRae, Sabrina Carpenter wouldn't even let Jackie open for them. Jackie opens for a group that only averages 300 capacity gigs. That is below even singing at the wineries or small 150 capacity night clubs. You can't spin much good out of that and say her career is doing just great. Hopefully she will gain some experience out of that but I doubt it as she sure didn't use anything she could have learned from "The Masked Singer". Anything good she may learn I am sure Mike E will deprogram her. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 28, 2024 17:21:35 GMT -5
More modeling opportunities because they show their dirty pillows, fanny, and Vajayjay. This is not an Only fans discussion. .... And voice over work when shes recording albums and touring, why? God knows where you're getting that from what I wrote. I specifically stated that with decent management you can find other opportunities. I mentioned modeling opportunities. in addition to runway models in the show, it is very common for fashion houses to hire celebrities to sit in choice seats in the front wearing their clothing from last year to given the impression that famous people can't wait to get in their latest outfits. I gave specific examples of Grace working with Marc Jacobs, Chanel, and Yves Saint Laurent. I'm sure Richard could fill you in on whoever the Zieglers did the same. Neither of them get the opportunities given to someone like Olivia Rodrigo or Billie Eilish.
I asked in the previous post and I'll ask again: Do you believe that had Jackie been offered such opportunities with fashion houses such as Marc Jacobs, Chanel, and Yves Saint Laurent, she would accept? You didn't answer because you know she would jump at that opportunity. Since others whether it be people at MP or Christina have taken active roles she has done that a few times and wore outfits that were more revealing than the stuff Grace wore in some of hers. Were those Jackie showing her dirty pillows, fanny, and Vajayjay? A sure sign of the OTT is the double standard of their fave vs. not their fave.
The key thing for a real manager is creating a strategy with the artist (or, in the case of a child star, also the artist's parents). They decide what they want to do and plan it out and allow for contingencies. I am pretty sure Grace's plan did not originally include taking four years off anymore than Jackie's included an automobile accident. A good manager will know what to do when emergencies happen. A good manager would have had either a public statement or (had she decided to keep it private) some substitute content so speculation such as what happened would never have occurred. A good manager would have taken care of the website by hiring someone to maintain it and update it when necessary. From what is apparent in Jackie's career at the present, certain people (MP, Christina, etc.) are chipping in their efforts in areas of their expertise but no one is in charge. Lately, Jackie's efforts have matched discussions here enough that I wonder if she's lurking (just kidding ... I'm sure the people at MP could figure this out if we could). You can see what a good manager can do with what is going on with Grace. She has been almost completely inactive musically since the pandemic. Now, she suddenly seems to be anywhere and everywhere from fashion magazines to Cannes to ABC News. This was not an accident - it was planned. She had hired new managers that specialized in young alt types and they knew the unveiling of Megalopolis was an opportunity. No matter how good the movie is or is not, no matter if it succeeds or flops, for weeks on end, it will be everywhere. So she went to every opener she could (Cannes, Toronto, New York) and made sure she wore something to get the fashion press talking about her. Of course, the fact that she's tall, thin, blonde, and has high cheekbones gives her an edge with the fashion world to start. Even though everyone knew she was signing with a new label, the announcement was held off until a week before her first single and introduced her back with a pleasant little song before coming back quickly a few weeks later what they think will be a killer track a week before Megalopolis' opening. This maximized the people who want to talk to her and she was popping up everywhere. That is the kind of thing managers do. Compare that to the failed opportunities Jackie had after her appearance on TMS. I had listed obvious steps that could have been done that would have added value to her appearance. It's not that I know something other people don't but having worked with marketing people this is Marketing 101 basic level stuff.
As far as why do voice over work when she's recording and touring, tell that to Eddie Murphy. When his career was in the doldrums with flop movie after flop movie and no one wanted to hire him, he revived his career by playing one of Donk's relatives in the Shrek movies. Then there is the young actress named Nancy Cartwright who had struggled to find work like a lot of young actresses and auditioned to be the voice of a ten year old boy in a dysfunctional family. Three and a half decades later, she is still the voice of Bart Simpson in one of the longest running television series of all time. There are lots of actors, singers, etc., who have continued to find work during slow times by doing voice over work. Lots of them were able to work during the pandemic since they only needed to record and not be in real scenes. Throw in Jackie's singing voice and you had an obvious possibility for teen musicals and Disney princesses.
There are also the many chances for acting. I have mentioned on multiple occasions of Disney planning to make the Stargirl movie in 2014 (long before Grace was ever in the picture). Disney tried out hundreds of girls before Joey King was cast but she became a star in another movie and demanded more money. In 2014-15, Jackie was still a hot commodity and had done an ad with Justice (the "Go Time" ad). Disney wanted a fresh faced kid they could sell to middle America who could sing and they would teach them to play the ukulele (the character in the book played the uke). Learning to play the uke well enough to play a few songs takes about two days practice tops and there were no requirements for songwriting but they were obviously open to having an original in there. Regardless, Jackie should have been in that mix at the beginning. Better yet, once the Joey King withdrawal was reported, Jackie's team should have been on the phone with Disney plugging Jackie's services. They were desperate to find a replacement and I am sure they would have worked the filming into Jackie's existing schedule if she did well at a screen test. She already had a SAG card, she obviously could sing, and Disney had spent money to license this from the book's author. They were desperate to make this movie but couldn't find the right person for the role. Before you object because of the "D-Word" (Disney), Lisa or Mike could have accompanied her on the set (Grace's mom was there every day Grace was filming) and Jackie would have had a lead role in a film that appealed to girls her age. The book's popularity (it was the big tween girls' book of the time) and the pre-woke Disney's PR machine would have made it easy to succeed as it was a relatively low budget film that didn't need a big box office to be make money. When I see comments from younger girls on Grace's IG accounts, most of them remember her from the Stargirl movies - not AGT. Not saying Jackie would have gotten the part, but she met the basic qualifications and the chance of having a role that would make her popular with kids her age would have been a dream come true.
The problem isn't that Jackie's parents meant her any harm, but that they were in over their head on many matters. Lisa did a great job getting Jackie noticed in the short term, but a career takes planning and long term thinking. I am sure Mike loves Jackie and wants to do the best for her, but he's just not qualified. He doesn't have the contacts, he doesn't follow what's going on in the show business world to take advantage of opportunities, etc. A real manager could have been doing that and formulating a plan for Jackie's career and then checked in with the Evanchos with whatever he came up with for approval. Mike and Lisa would still have the final say but two inexperienced people cannot travel with her while making calls, etc. Even they knew they had no clue how to set up a tour and hired Marc Johnston to do it for them. This would have just been one more hire but I don't think they understood how important the planning phase of a show business career is for long term success. |
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Post by richard on Sept 28, 2024 18:08:47 GMT -5
I am sure Mike loves Jackie and wants to do the best for her, but he's just not qualified. He sure didn't have Jackie's best interest when he made her the financial supporter of the entire family. Then buying a 1 million dollar home. I can't think of any young artist that was stuck with such demands that didn't write a book about it years later. I bet Grace's family didn't take one cent from her earning. Maddie Ziegler as soon as she turned 18 bought herself a $990,000 condo. Kenzie the same way as soon as she moved out she had the money to go where she wanted. Jenna Ortega the same way her parents didn't want anything to do with the entertainment industry and she started her career at a much younger age than Jackie. I wonder if Jackie still has to support Mike and some of the family. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 28, 2024 18:15:26 GMT -5
On a few occasions, I have mentioned the importance of the major Spotify playlists. So let me give you an example of what it means.
Last month, Grace released "Call It What You Want" which made it to a few smaller playlists but not the major ones. It has done well and now stands at over 470k streams. It will certainly pass the 720k+ her last single "Boyfriends" did and will have another surge when the album drops as that pushes streams.
A month later, she releases "What's Left of Me" which in its first week did 210k or an average of about 30k a day but it started out at 15k a day and was rising . This got it, as I mentioned, the pole position on a major Spotify playlist. Now, two days later, the stream are at 431k which means the song is suddenly getting over 100k streams a day.
This has a "upward spiral" effect in terms of going viral. As more people hear the song, more people like the song and around and around it goes. I remember seeing a week ago there were maybe 25 videos on Tik Tok using a clip Grace had used of the song in her videos. Now its rapidly approaching 200 with no slowdown in sight. If things go right, it becomes almost a pyramid the more people use it, the more other people want to use it. It helps that the chorus comes right at you with a killer hook. But that killer hook doesn't help if no one hears it.
Now that she's on a major playlist once more, she will have an inside track to those playlists. This is one reason I am not as negative as a lot of people on this site are for Jackie's career. You just need to work on writing some songs that gets people's attention. It only takes one to get a career back on track.
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Post by msims on Sept 28, 2024 19:27:24 GMT -5
 Classical Crossover is only classical singing if the song requires it otherwise its adapting to the genre, pop requires a different technique as she demonstrated in a recent ABC Nightline interview. Marc Johnston managed Jackie for years:  Marc was responsible for:Negotiating with Warnor Bros for David Foster who he too managed to work with Jackie and release an album and a dvd/bluray Negotiate with PBSGet the Dancing with the Stars performanceNegotiate the Donald Trump Inauguration-- Jackie will be performing in front of a younger demo for those Echosmith shows which is a huge deal and its a massive contradiction on the part of all the trolls who have complained for years about the lack of attention on social media in other words marketing to a younger demo despite it not being in the target demo for CC. When its finally going to happen, it just proves all along and its confirmed that these are trolls. They want her to fail. Amg's favorite is projected by Deadline to debut to 4m on a budget of a 120 million. On top of that Coppola also had to pay an additional $15 to $20m. Less than 5 percent return on investment. @socal fan all posts about this movie and this actor and her career by amg, etc should be moved to the Other Artists sub thread and I could move them for you. |
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Post by richard on Sept 28, 2024 19:45:15 GMT -5
Now that she's on a major playlist once more, she will have an inside track to those playlists. This is one reason I am not as negative as a lot of people on this site are for Jackie's career. You just need to work on writing some songs that gets people's attention. It only takes one to get a career back on track. Yes but there are 1000's of others that are trying to write that one song to get them noticed. Jackie writing songs when she doesn't even identify with her own age group is a huge handicap. After 14 years Jackie hasn't developed any stage presence that will work anyplace except small clubs where she can just stand and sing. Probably the biggest problem in Jackie career has been having parents as managers which is almost impossible to replace with good management. For several of us the writing was on the wall that she need to change management and direction. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 28, 2024 19:47:10 GMT -5
Since everyone has their idea of how best to run somebody else's forum, let me put in my two cents. First off, I think the forum should be run however Socal Fan wants to run it. But I will make a few suggestions and leave it to him. Now, if Socal Fan has been thinking of changing things, it is best he do it in the next week or so as we are getting close to that 1000 page total where he will start yet another General Discussion: Entertainment section (#5). My idea would be to make it, beginning with #5, a temporary holding place for all entertainment discussions. After everyone has had a chance to see and discuss it, then move it to the appropriate section (either the Jackie section or the other artist section). For non-Jackie posts, the limit would be one week. For Jackie posts, one month. If the discussion is still ongoing, there can be an extension at the discretion of the moderator. This way any topic not generating continued discussion will disappear quickly and unclutter things. Eventually, one could do the same for the earlier General discussion sections and get rid of the clutter of multiple general discussions entirely. Of course, my suggestion would require at least one additional moderator to specialize in just moving things around.
Any thoughts?? Amg1977 has made a good suggestion and he has also volunteered to be the one who unclutters the main thread. I have therefore appointed him as a Global Moderator. As he has suggested, all Jackie-related posts will stay on this main thread for a month before he moves them to the Jackie thread. Non-Jackie-related posts will stay on this main thread for a week before amg moves them to the appropriate non-Jackie thread. This main thread will essentially function the way it has always functioned except that after a month or a week, amg will move posts to the Jackie and non-Jackie threads where they belong. We will try this out to see how well it works. As always, suggestions are welcome. |
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Post by colt46 on Sept 28, 2024 19:49:27 GMT -5
I disagree I think Jackie does have some stage presence! Richard you have not seen her perform live, ask Donkey 🫏 he has seen Jackie live several times ! I am not go to judge her from crappy Utube videos! On the Masked Singer Jackie showed plenty of stage presence! I think she can do it without the mask ! She just needs to practice those moves without the crunch of being incognito 🥸 !
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 28, 2024 19:59:17 GMT -5
@socal fan all posts about this movie and this actor and her career by amg, etc should be moved to the Other Artists sub thread and I could move them for you. We are essentially doing what you suggest - see my post 2 posts above this post. The only difference is that the non-Jackie-related posts will stay here for a week before being moved. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 28, 2024 20:05:09 GMT -5
After 14 years Jackie hasn't developed any stage presence that will work anyplace except small clubs where she can just stand and sing. I disagree I think Jackie does have some stage presence! Richard you have not seen her perform live, ask Donkey 🫏 he has seen Jackie live several times ! I am not go to judge her from crappy Utube videos! I don't think that Jackie's problem is stage presence. I think her problem is charisma. Most pop fans will not be interested in a song unless they are also interested in the singer-writer that performed and wrote the song. |
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Post by richard on Sept 28, 2024 20:36:19 GMT -5
I disagree I think Jackie does have some stage presence! Richard you have not seen her perform live, ask Donkey 🫏 he has seen Jackie live several times ! I am not go to judge her from crappy Utube videos! On the Masked Singer Jackie showed plenty of stage presence! I think she can do it without the mask ! She just needs to practice those moves without the crunch of being incognito 🥸 ! If Jackie doesn't have stage presence on youtubes or anywhere the general public may see her then it really doesn't mater at that point. People want to know what to expect before they but their money down. |
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Post by Just Somebody on Sept 29, 2024 1:00:58 GMT -5
Thank you, SoCal, for appointing someone to help out. This is not a busy forum, but it's a packed forum and has become kind of a beast organizationally. Good decision to put AMG in that slot. Division of labor and all that.
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 29, 2024 6:55:33 GMT -5
Amg's favorite is projected by Deadline to debut to 4m on a budget of a 120 million. On top of that Coppola also had to pay an additional $15 to $20m. Less than 5 percent return on investment.
This is hilarious ... msims is so desperate that he actually makes it sound as though it were Grace opening to anything. She is a supporting actress in a film by a legendary director and is in a cast filled with A-List stars. No one - including Coppola himself - expected this film to make money. The point for the the A-List actors was to work with a great director in his last film on a project that was interesting. For Coppola, the point was that he had wanted to make this movie for decades but no studio would risk it in a climate where audiences mainly attend movie remakes of their favorite Marvel comic books. But he wanted to make it and was worth about $400 million dollars from a winery business he had founded decades ago and used $150 million of it to make it. Considering he's over 80 years old and would still be worth over $200 million, it wasn't much of a risk for his pet project. For Grace, it was simple: she had been typecast in music by AGT and managed to break that mold. She was typecast in acting by Stargirl and now she has broken that one as well. As I pointed out, no matter how good or bad the film does, she already won. Now she is one of those actors whom Francis Ford Coppola trusted with his pet project and trusted to write music for the same. Sh used the red carpet events to become an up and coming fashion icon. Everyone was interviewing the stars of the film and naturally ask about other projects and she was able to mention she had new music coming out.
But the real proof is in the pudding so to speak. Considering both Jackie and Grace have had new music out in the last year and both are streaming only, we actually have some comparable benchmarks. I will only compare the singles as Grace's album has not yet been released.
Jackie Evancho
| TITLE | RELEASE DATE
| SPOTIFY STREAMS | Behind My Eyes
| 09/08/2023 | 76,208 | | At Least I Have Santa | 10/27/2023
| 83,026
| | Consequences | 11/03/2023 | 91,796 | Behind My Eyes 2.0
| 02/02/2024 | 209,634 | Smoking Gun
| 03/05/2024 | 24,815 | Get Out of My Life
| 05/03/2024 | 162,997 |
Grace Vanderwaal
| TITLE | RELEASE DATE
| SPOTIFY STREAMS
| Call It What You Want
| 08/16/2024 | 471,549 | What's Left of Me
| 09/18/2024 | 431,107 |
I think the numbers speak for themselves. I have been very open in stating that Grace is not a big star and that her style and general strangeness works against her. I'm fine with that since I like the strange and unpredictable in music. However, I don't have to pretend Grace (or Jackie for that matter) currently has a popularity beyond what the cold hard facts testify. But, despite her lower tier popularity and inactivity for four years, her songs have achieved numbers in two to six weeks that dwarf what Jackie has in four to twelve months. If, as I have conceded, Grace is not a big star, then where is Jackie's current standing?
If you admit, as I have stated, that Jackie is starting anew and striving for an audience, then her recent efforts are perfectly understandable and actually positive. But if you insist that she is a star in the orbit of Billie Eilish or Olivia Rodrigo, then this is a complete disaster. I'm positive for both of these women's futures but I refuse to engage in fairy tale thinking about their popularity. I would rather listen to both of them than, with a few exceptions, everything that is immensely popular at the moment. But I know a lot about about numbers and enough about show business to see without rose colored glasses.
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Post by colt46 on Sept 29, 2024 7:39:12 GMT -5
They sing 🎶 more popular music than Jackie, I am not going to dislike Jackie because she doesn’t have a large view count on her songs ,I am not a fair weather fan when it comes to Jackie!
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Post by 1 Guest on Sept 29, 2024 7:58:14 GMT -5
Amg's favorite is projected by Deadline to debut to 4m on a budget of a 120 million. On top of that Coppola also had to pay an additional $15 to $20m. Less than 5 percent return on investment.
This is hilarious ... msims is so desperate that he actually makes it sound as though it were Grace opening to anything. She is a supporting actress in a film by a legendary director and is in a cast filled with A-List stars. No one - including Coppola himself - expected this film to make money. The point for the the A-List actors was to work with a great director in his last film on a project that was interesting. For Coppola, the point was that he had wanted to make this movie for decades but no studio would risk it in a climate where audiences mainly attend movie remakes of their favorite Marvel comic books. But he wanted to make it and was worth about $400 million dollars from a winery business he had founded decades ago and used $150 million of it to make it. Considering he's over 80 years old and would still be worth over $200 million, it wasn't much of a risk for his pet project. For Grace, it was simple: she had been typecast in music by AGT and managed to break that mold. She was typecast in acting by Stargirl and now she has broken that one as well. As I pointed out, no matter how good or bad the film does, she already won. Now she is one of those actors whom Francis Ford Coppola trusted with his pet project and trusted to write music for the same. Sh used the red carpet events to become an up and coming fashion icon. Everyone was interviewing the stars of the film and naturally ask about other projects and she was able to mention she had new music coming out.
But the real proof is in the pudding so to speak. Considering both Jackie and Grace have had new music out in the last year and both are streaming only, we actually have some comparable benchmarks. I will only compare the singles as Grace's album has not yet been released.
Jackie Evancho
| TITLE | RELEASE DATE
| SPOTIFY STREAMS | Behind My Eyes
| 09/08/2023 | 76,208 | | At Least I Have Santa | 10/27/2023
| 83,026
| | Consequences | 11/03/2023 | 91,796 | Behind My Eyes 2.0
| 02/02/2024 | 209,634 | Smoking Gun
| 03/05/2024 | 24,815 | Get Out of My Life
| 05/03/2024 | 162,997 |
Grace Vanderwaal
| TITLE | RELEASE DATE
| SPOTIFY STREAMS
| Call It What You Want
| 08/16/2024 | 471,549 | What's Left of Me
| 09/18/2024 | 431,107 |
I think the numbers speak for themselves. I have been very open in stating that Grace is not a big star and that her style and general strangeness works against her. I'm fine with that since I like the strange and unpredictable in music. However, I don't have to pretend Grace (or Jackie for that matter) currently has a popularity beyond what the cold hard facts testify. But, despite her lower tier popularity and inactivity for four years, her songs have achieved numbers in two to six weeks that dwarf what Jackie has in four to twelve months. If, as I have conceded, Grace is not a big star, then where is Jackie's current standing?
If you admit, as I have stated, that Jackie is starting anew and striving for an audience, then her recent efforts are perfectly understandable and actually positive. But if you insist that she is a star in the orbit of Billie Eilish or Olivia Rodrigo, then this is a complete disaster. I'm positive for both of these women's futures but I refuse to engage in fairy tale thinking about their popularity. I would rather listen to both of them than, with a few exceptions, everything that is immensely popular at the moment. But I know a lot about about numbers and enough about show business to see without rose colored glasses.
Can you imagine how simsy would have carried on had Coppola given Jackie not only a role in a movie he's been dreaming about for decades, but also allowed her to write two of the songs? Getting that role was quite a coup for her and can only help her career. He knows it, it ticks him off to no end, so he'll try to put a negative spin on it. |
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