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Post by amg1977 on Sept 1, 2019 21:50:44 GMT -5
I think it is significant that the most popular winners in recent memory (Paul Fator and Grace Vanderwaal) did not bother with AGT Champions. Now both nice outs: Fator has a gig in Vegas and Grace was filming Stargirl but both could have been worked around if they had wanted to appear. It was no secret that Grace did not have any desire to go back to AGT as anything other than a performer and Fator had a similar position. I guarantee that if Jackie's career were not in the dumps, she would not have been there either. Yes I could see any of them making a guest appearance but would be foolish to actually compete. Remember Lindsey Stirling turned them down also. Can you imagine the response if Lifetime TV asked Maddie if she wanted to enter a dance competition in an episode of Dance Moms?  |
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 2, 2019 0:08:27 GMT -5
Socalfan: Sorry to be the bearer of sad tidingsThat's odd, you don't sound at all sorry. That's because even though my heart is broken, I put on a brave face and soldier on. Socalfan: Connie was eliminated from BGT Champions in the 1st roundSince only one audience chosen contestant got to move on out of 8 after the sand artist got the Golden Buzzer, I don't think that was totally unexpected. But even if they allowed 3 audience chosen contestants, neither Connie nor Paul Potts would have advanced. Jackie has never had a top single on any chart and never will. Agreed. Her genre just doesn't produce chart toppers. |
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Post by Disappointed on Sept 2, 2019 0:24:15 GMT -5
But even if they allowed 3 audience chosen contestants, neither Connie nor Paul Potts would have advanced. Which is further evidence that Brexit wasn't just a one-off stupid decision by the British public. |
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Post by Nothing but facts on Sept 2, 2019 5:11:07 GMT -5
Sorry to be the bearer of sad tidings but: 1. Connie was eliminated from BGT Champions in the 1st round: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain%27s_Got_Talent:_The_ChampionsSo was Paul Potts. Neither was even in the top 4 out of 9 contestants. 2. Connie's itunes top 10 was based on a real-time snapshot taken today (9/1). She had just sung the very same song on the broadcast of BGT Champions last night (8/31). Real time sales charts are based on hours of sales and are therefore volatile; all it takes is a relatively low number of sales to have a big impact. So this is just a spike and not a meaningful metric. It will be interesting to see how well the song does on broader based metrics. I will say this: Jackie has never had a top single on any chart and never will. And with Connie writing her own songs, playing her own instruments and being a lot better looking and more personable, I would give her a far far better chance of success. Book it! A fortune telling troll ... farseeing all the way to never. I can see that Jackie had 7 straight Number One Albums, but can not even see tomorrow. I do believe Jackie will have more success before never. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 2, 2019 6:32:09 GMT -5
I will say this: Jackie has never had a top single on any chart and never will. And with Connie writing her own songs, playing her own instruments and being a lot better looking and more personable, I would give her a far far better chance of success. Book it! A fortune telling troll ... farseeing all the way to never. I can see that Jackie had 7 straight Number One Albums, but can not even see tomorrow. I do believe Jackie will have more success before never. Let's not get carried away here...she had seven straight #1 albums on the classical charts but her most recent album was a commercial dud that could not crack the Billboard 200 even in its initial week. It doesn't take much saleswise to be #1 on the classical charts but she used to be a regular in the top 20 of the Billboard charts overall (4 straight albums). Moreover, the connection between classical and her last two albums is tenuous at best...she was placed on those charts more out of habit than substance. The fact is that she used to be a successful recording artist but isn't anymore. She used to sell out decent sized concert halls on a regular basis but now she struggles to fill the smallest of venues. Trying to pawn off her recent undeserved appearances at #1 on the classical charts (do Two Hearts or The Debut sound classical to you?) as having any significance whatsoever only rearranges the deck chairs on the Titanic.
However, unlike some others on this board, I am not totally pessimistic about Jackie's future. I can see her having long term success in her music career - she has too good a voice to write off completely - but she will have to make some tough decisions. This includes acknowledging to herself that her career is floundering and then taking the steps necessary to turn things around. The first step is to figure out what kind of music she wants to sing for the next twenty years. CC, show tunes, pop - pick a lane and go for it. Trying to be all things to all people usually ends up with you being nothing to nobody and that is what has happened to Jackie. Next is to sign up with management that knows how to promote people in the chose genre and parking her mom and pop operation by the pool in Pittsburgh never to be seen again in any significant role in her career. Finally, you have to be willing to work as hard as it takes for as long as it takes to turn things around. Is that possible given her emotional makeup? I honestly don't know but if she wants to be successful again she is going to have to put the nose to the grindstone and stuff like that.
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 2, 2019 7:48:40 GMT -5
Creative musicians like to jam ... especially when they find a place with great acoustics. Here is Grace and her guitarist Melissa with some impromptu fun when they found just such a spot (from Grace's Instagram):
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Post by Beachguy on Sept 2, 2019 10:19:08 GMT -5
SO SO Many good young singers in the world , must have a Great Tune & Agent ..Book it ...
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 2, 2019 14:15:13 GMT -5
SO SO Many good young singers in the world , must have a Great Tune & Agent ..Book it ... Pretty girl about the same age as Jackie. I compared her version of Million Dreams to Jackie's. Jackie's may be slightly more polished but I found them similar and liked them equally. I agree that there are many many good young singers in the world. So what distinguishes them is songwriting and persona. |
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Post by Disappointed on Sept 2, 2019 14:59:58 GMT -5
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 2, 2019 18:02:26 GMT -5
Good for her. But in a world moving towards streaming, we need a more meaningful metric. This appears to be the UK equivalent of the Billboard Hot 100: www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/"The Official UK Top 40 chart is compiled by the Official Charts Company, based on official sales of sales of downloads, CD, vinyl, audio streams and video streams. The Top 40 is broadcast on BBC Radio 1 and MTV, the full Top 100 is published exclusively on OfficialCharts.com." We will see if she shows up on it. |
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Post by Disappointed on Sept 2, 2019 18:31:51 GMT -5
Good for her. But in a world moving towards streaming, we need a more meaningful metric. This appears to be the UK equivalent of the Billboard Hot 100: www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/"The Official UK Top 40 chart is compiled by the Official Charts Company, based on official sales of sales of downloads, CD, vinyl, audio streams and video streams. The Top 40 is broadcast on BBC Radio 1 and MTV, the full Top 100 is published exclusively on OfficialCharts.com." We will see if she shows up on it. A nice try, after I discredited your claim that she was only on the iTunes chart for a snapshot in time because everyone else had slow sales for very short period. But she has been in the Top Ten for a couple of days now. As for the chart you now pulled up to discredit her, unless you can verify that her single had access to all of the platforms as everyone else on it, it is a meaningless comparison. As an young independent artist, it is unlikely that she had the access to all of those avenues. But her song was available on iTunes, as was everyone else's, so that is a fair comparison of how it stacked up against the best, at lest for a few days. And remember, this success is a song she herself wrote, and played her own instrument for as well as sang. Far more than Jackie ever did or ever will do. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 2, 2019 19:51:51 GMT -5
Good for her. But in a world moving towards streaming, we need a more meaningful metric. This appears to be the UK equivalent of the Billboard Hot 100: www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/"The Official UK Top 40 chart is compiled by the Official Charts Company, based on official sales of sales of downloads, CD, vinyl, audio streams and video streams. The Top 40 is broadcast on BBC Radio 1 and MTV, the full Top 100 is published exclusively on OfficialCharts.com." We will see if she shows up on it. Amusingly, you state we need a more meaningful metric in a world of streaming and then proceed to dismiss metrics that accurately reflect streaming (those provided directly by streaming services like itunes and Spotify) in favor of a dinosaur metric that overly favors direct sales like this chart and the Billboard Hot 100 - both meaningless metrics in this era. Are you aware there are scores of singles that have gone gold or platinum each of the last five years that never make the top 40 in charts like the Billboard Hot 100 or the one you named because they heavily weight it to favor acts that receive radio airplay? Check Billy Eilish's discography on Wikipedia and you will find that her singles have been going gold and platinum consistently around the world but none cracked the top 40 in Billboard until "When the Party's Over" from her recent album:
The music scene independent of mainstream radio and dinosaur metrics like the one's you mentioned are part of the problem - not the solution. The charts provided by streaming services are not only the best measure of popularity but reflect it in real time. This is why in the last few years "old guard" institutions like Billboard and Rolling Stone have been actively fawning over acts like Billie and Grace: they know they are out of the loop in the rapdily evolving new music scene and are desperately playing catch up. The sooner mainstream radio catches on to it (they have with Billie after fighting her influence for years), the sooner popular music will get out of the garbage cycle of sound alike crap we have been subjected to the last decade or more.
Back to the main point. though: the very metrics you pass over (the itunes one supplied by Disappointed anf the Spotify metric I mentioned) DO REFLECT the current reality while the one you mention is basically the last gasp of the dinosaurs as that meteor zeroes in on the Yucatan Peninsula.
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Post by Beachguy on Sept 2, 2019 20:07:34 GMT -5
SO SO Many good young singers in the world , must have a Great Tune & Agent ..Book it ... Pretty girl about the same age as Jackie. I compared her version of Million Dreams to Jackie's. Jackie's may be slightly more polished but I found them similar and liked them equally. I agree that there are many many good young singers in the world. So what distinguishes them is songwriting and persona. It would be interesting to see how many of the top rated 12 female singers have written their top hit/hits , i would guess perhaps 3 , i think again it takes a number of things involved and we have no idea about things like signing Contracts giving up a % of profits to persons/Agencies to help make it big . Luck , Time , Place/Country , How , Money , Material , Chance , Desire , Wisdom , Manager , etc , etc , etc , and great Voice is lowest on list , There are millions of very good singers world wide .Lots of big name began with that one BIG tune that started the career . |
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Post by Socal Fan on Sept 2, 2019 20:32:36 GMT -5
A nice try, after I discredited your claim that she was only on the iTunes chart for a snapshot in time because everyone else had slow sales for very short period. But she has been in the Top Ten for a couple of days now. As for the chart you now pulled up to discredit her, unless you can verify that her single had access to all of the platforms as everyone else on it, it is a meaningless comparison. As an young independent artist, it is unlikely that she had the access to all of those avenues. But her song was available on iTunes, as was everyone else's, so that is a fair comparison of how it stacked up against the best, at lest for a few days. And remember, this success is a song she herself wrote, and played her own instrument for as well as sang. Far more than Jackie ever did or ever will do. For me, the only meaningful metrics are BB200 (albums) and Hot100 (singles) in the US. And whatever the equivalents are in foreign countries. That's because they cover all the different forms of consumer consumption, especially streaming, the dominant form. If Connie cannot compete because she is a young independent artist, that simply proves that she is not yet ready for the major leagues. I will pay closer attention when and if she is ready for the major leagues. I should note that Jackie released Debut as an independent but I, and most others, did not cut her any slack. We noted that she missed BB200 for the first time in her career (and by a wide margin). Of course, Debut topped the classical chart but I consider any chart other than BB200/Hot100 to be meaningless. Metrics are metrics; I try to use the best metrics and don't change them to suit the circumstances of the artist. Connie did make the UK Top 100 chart with Over the Rainbow (2007, 5 weeks) and Christmas Album (2008, 1 week) but that was more than a decade ago. Connie may (or may not) have the potential to make it back into the major leagues but Jackie started out in the major leagues and has stayed there with recordings and concerts. We will just have to wait to see what the future brings for both of them. |
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Post by amg1977 on Sept 2, 2019 21:06:56 GMT -5
A nice try, after I discredited your claim that she was only on the iTunes chart for a snapshot in time because everyone else had slow sales for very short period. But she has been in the Top Ten for a couple of days now. As for the chart you now pulled up to discredit her, unless you can verify that her single had access to all of the platforms as everyone else on it, it is a meaningless comparison. As an young independent artist, it is unlikely that she had the access to all of those avenues. But her song was available on iTunes, as was everyone else's, so that is a fair comparison of how it stacked up against the best, at lest for a few days. And remember, this success is a song she herself wrote, and played her own instrument for as well as sang. Far more than Jackie ever did or ever will do. For me, the only meaningful metrics are BB200 (albums) and Hot100 (singles) in the US. And whatever the equivalents are in foreign countries. That's because they cover all the different forms of consumer consumption, especially streaming, the dominant form. If Connie cannot compete because she is a young independent artist, that simply proves that she is not yet ready for the major leagues. I will pay closer attention when and if she is ready for the major leagues. I should note that Jackie released Debut as an independent but I, and most others, did not cut her any slack. We noted that she missed BB200 for the first time in her career (and by a wide margin). Of course, Debut topped the classical chart but I consider any chart other than BB200/Hot100 to be meaningless. Metrics are metrics; I try to use the best metrics and don't change them to suit the circumstances of the artist. Connie did make the UK Top 100 chart with Over the Rainbow (2007, 5 weeks) and Christmas Album (2008, 1 week) but that was more than a decade ago. Connie may (or may not) have the potential to make it back into the major leagues but Jackie started out in the major leagues and has stayed there with recordings and concerts. We will just have to wait to see what the future brings for both of them. The BB200 for albums is legit but the Hot 100 is a joke and everyone in the industry knows it. It is tied to the old way of doing things since it has largely been dependent upon music retailers and radio stations. Thus it incredibly over-represents radio airplay and direct sales (radio airplay makes up over 40% of the count) while streaming is incredibly under-represented. That's why you get idiocy like Billie Eilish's "Ocean Eyes" being one of the most viral songs of the last decade and going multi-platinum but not reaching any higher than #84 on the Hot 100 because it never was played on the radio (amusingly, it is played on the radio now years after the fact). No one who is trying to understand how the music industry will work over the next 30 years even pays attention to the Hot 100 save the dinosaur industries (mainstream radio and record retailers) who will largely be irrelevant in the future. You will more than likely see Billboard completely overhaul the system just as the RIAA did a few years ago in determining platinum and gold album metrics. Again, the Hot 100 and the chart you used are only fit for dinosaurs. |
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