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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 7, 2018 19:50:24 GMT -5
As for banning guns: once you have taken up all the ones held by criminals then you can try asking for mine. Nobody in his right mind is trying to ban guns. It's just not practical. Until you get tough enough with the criminals to make their possession of a gun impossible, don't even bother. Exactly. There needs to be a watertight background check system to make sure criminals don't get guns. Regulations for private gun sales and transfers are very lax - that's how criminals get their guns. |
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Post by jrchico on Apr 8, 2018 16:07:09 GMT -5
As for banning guns: once you have taken up all the ones held by criminals then you can try asking for mine. Nobody in his right mind is trying to ban guns. It's just not practical. Until you get tough enough with the criminals to make their possession of a gun impossible, don't even bother. Exactly. There needs to be a watertight background check system to make sure criminals don't get guns. Regulations for private gun sales and transfers are very lax - that's how criminals get their guns. They also steal them. They are criminals after all. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 8, 2018 16:24:23 GMT -5
They also steal them. They are criminals after all. Agreed. That would be an argument in favor of gun registration. That way, if someone is caught in possession of a gun not registered to them, they would be prosecuted for gun theft. |
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Post by richard on Apr 8, 2018 16:39:40 GMT -5
They also steal them. They are criminals after all. Agreed. That would be an argument in favor of gun registration. That way, if someone is caught in possession of a gun not registered to them, they would be prosecuted for gun theft. But that is none of the government's business who owns what. Registration is and always has been the first step to confiscation. So you think the people of the US are dumb enough to fall for any registration trick even the background checks are supposed to be destroyed and when you purchase a gun the gun store is supposed to be the only one with the sales information. All while I was growing up anyone could go to a gun show and buy what they wanted if something has changed to make that to dangerous then they need to find what changed and fix that. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 8, 2018 17:33:41 GMT -5
But that is none of the government's business who owns what. The government's business is whatever the majority of the electorate thinks it is. Background checks are useless as long as I can get someone else to buy a gun for me. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 18:03:04 GMT -5
But that is none of the government's business who owns what. The government's business is whatever the majority of the electorate thinks it is. Background checks are useless as long as I can get someone else to buy a gun for me. That's true, and when the 2nd Amend. is repealed the Govt. will confiscate all of the legal, registered guns, but they'll never get the millions of guns that are already in the country illegally. So the good guys won't have guns and won't be able to protect themselves against the bad guys who do have the guns, or against the government. |
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Post by richard on Apr 8, 2018 18:04:12 GMT -5
But that is none of the government's business who owns what. The government's business is whatever the majority of the electorate thinks it is. Background checks are useless as long as I can get someone else to buy a gun for me. This is not a democracy the government is confined by what powers the Constitution gave it. Like I said if there is a gun problem then it's up to the government to find out why there is a problem now, when people could go out and buy much deadly weapons 100 years ago with no questions asked. It is bound to have been changes the government has made over time like letting anyone into this country basically not following their own laws that are on the books, of course they created the gangs when they started offering women money just to have kids. If the way things are going and WW-3 happens someday you may see how valuable it is to have a gun and the American people have by far decided that the best gun is an AR-15 type as it is by far the most common type of rifle sold. All through history there are things like wars, invasions, plagues, famine, floods, and other natural disasters that affected ten of million at a time. Not just a few here and there. That is what the 2nd amendment is really about. |
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Post by agog on Apr 8, 2018 19:26:09 GMT -5
[tr][td class="content"][article] The government's business is whatever the majority of the electorate thinks it is. Background checks are useless as long as I can get someone else to buy a gun for me.
"The government's business is whatever the majority...thinks it is." Socalfan, this is the most wrong headed statement made on this forum since Gordy advanced his freedom from religion suggestion. Governments are the great killers of humans throughout History. They make war. They tax (steal by force of arms) their subjects. They steal land from small farmers and enrich their operatives and officials through bribes and corruption. Nowadays governments force most children into indoctrination centers that have very little to do with education but everything to do with molding compliant obedient non thinkers and ineffective moral degenerates. People of the so called liberal bent seem to realize that individual humans can be dangerous actors, immoral, greedy, liars, thieves, sociopaths and psychopaths, yet they see the most destructive institution (government) as some benign and even good institution that can be trusted to "do the right thing" and be a refuge against the disastrous effects of wrong think. I am not one to put great weight on the armed populace as a curb to tyrannical overreach though it IS a valid position. We can discuss this more of you like. I AM however a big firearms supporter from the right of self defense against criminal predation. A firearm is very good self defense from common thuggery and mob mischief. It is not the government who "gives" me a right to protect my life and my person from serious injury, because it's not the government that gave me my life, it's Nature, (I would say God but I don't know how to signal a trigger alert to Gordy) Natural Law. My property is my life too and my progeny's life. There are criminal ne'er do wells most everywhere. I have the RIGHT to resist them with deadly force. At this time in History firearms are the most effective tool a common man can have and master to protect his and other's lives. |
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Post by agog on Apr 8, 2018 19:38:41 GMT -5
I have to add to my above post.
People as individuals or groups are subject to manipulation through propaganda and appeals to their righteousness. Some think: "Those 'others' have what they have because they stole it from us or prevented us from getting our fair share. They run a game set up to keep us down. (Blah blah blah.) Let's get them and take what is rightfully ours that they took or withheld from us."
If people who think that way can assemble a majority coalition then according to you Socalfan, they have the votes and that makes it lawful.
Conservatives say there are areas of human interaction that governments, even Democracies cannot enter.
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 8, 2018 19:49:46 GMT -5
Conservatives say there are areas of human interaction that governments, even Democracies cannot enter. I fully agree that there are areas that governments should not enter. But how are these areas to be determined ... if not by the electorate and their representatives? |
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Post by agog on Apr 8, 2018 20:11:15 GMT -5
Conservatives say there are areas of human interaction that governments, even Democracies cannot enter. I fully agree that there are areas that governments should not enter. But how are these areas to be determined ... if not by the electorate and their representatives? By the study of Philosophy and History. By understanding that we are a tainted species. By realizing that the best government is limited in it's scope and power. By acknowledging that institutions ordained by men are imperfect as are the men who devised and ordained them and require constant supervision to keep them within their proper bounds. Only a moral people are capable of self governance, and then only with constant vigilance. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 8, 2018 20:43:51 GMT -5
require constant supervision to keep them within their proper bounds. Only a moral people are capable of self governance, and then only with constant vigilance. But who will provide that "constant supervision"? Who will determine the "proper bounds"? Who will maintain the "constant vigilance"? |
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Post by agog on Apr 8, 2018 20:53:36 GMT -5
require constant supervision to keep them within their proper bounds. Only a moral people are capable of self governance, and then only with constant vigilance. But who will provide that "constant supervision"? Who will determine the "proper bounds"? Who will maintain the "constant vigilance"? Space aliens perhaps? Oh wait! Let's just trust the government to be good and curb their own power. Yeah! That's the ticket! Everybody relax. Who watches the watchers has been a question posed since Roman times. The answer is what I gave you above. WE the people must be the watchers. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Apr 8, 2018 21:11:58 GMT -5
WE the people must be the watchers. We can all WATCH but watching accomplishes nothing. What can we DO about it? What we can do is to elect people who will act on our behalf. That's what government is all about. |
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Post by agog on Apr 8, 2018 22:01:02 GMT -5
WE the people must be the watchers. We can all WATCH but watching accomplishes nothing. What can we DO about it? What we can do is to elect people who will act on our behalf. That's what government is all about. This is getting tedious. Would you care for some Pablum with your platitudes? You posed the questions WHO will provide constant supervision, proper bounds and constant vigilance. I answered it as well as you're likely to read in your lifetime. Now you posit that watching, meaning active vigilance in this case, accomplishes nothing. BULL! And you know it. Watching is keeping informed and alert. Some people, people who have the vote, see their interest as electing representatives who will tax (take by threat of force or punishment) productive people, and give them that money. The politicians see it as in their interest to do so in order to remain in their cushy, respected, lucrative position. That's what government is about for them. Don't watch then SCF. Don't scrutinize the elected officials. Don't be aware that all men are corrupt and only by realizing that, and deciding to curb one's self with self vigilance does any individual have a chance of remaining honorable. No one has completely succeeded so far. (Well one man has. They nailed him to a cross for making the others uncomfortable. But for Gordy's sake I'll stifle myself.) Do as the Liberals do, say to yourself "Oh I'm a good person. I'm kind and generous. I'll vote for that nice person who will provide from the public treasure the wherewithal to maintain those poor oppressed people whom only mean spirited people would chafe at being forced to pay for their basic human needs. Have some democracy SCF. |
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