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Post by johnnyb on Aug 27, 2019 11:12:27 GMT -5
Dumb statement Tiffany's hires the most expensive models. As an Img-model they set the price. They spent a fortune just on the set. Are you questioning beachguy's decades of experience in the high fashion industry? He even knows more than I do. That ain't saying much. 😯 |
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 27, 2019 11:13:41 GMT -5
It should be pretty clear by now that her focus and attention has shifted away from CC into other directions. I don't think that is true. All or most of Jackie's income comes from concerts and I believe that much or most of her concert material is the same CC material (OMBC, Nessun Dorma, Lord's Prayer, Somewhere, etc) she has been singing for many years. She also sings newer songs but she knows it would be suicidal for her to abandon the tried and true stuff that her fans buy tickets to hear her sing. Stating that Jackie's "focus and attention has shifted away from CC into other directions" does not imply that she is suddenly going to drop every trace of CC material from her set list. What is meant is that as time goes on (if she still manages to have a successful performing career), her newer material will come to dominate the set list and that new material will not have much if anything in the way of CC. In this country, at least, CC is pretty much a dead issue - Billboard does not even have a chart for it anymore - and was likely a faddish concept from the last few decades. I expect the remainder of Jackie's career will be focused on establishing herself in some form of popular music and the older CC material will be dropped over that time as those who want to hear it drop into their graves. |
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Post by richard on Aug 27, 2019 11:15:05 GMT -5
1. The article does not state that Tiffany's was losing money. They were not. What it states is that they had declining sales for two years in a row. On Wall Street, this can be a problem in making stock prices take a dive since prices are set by expectations and meeting those expectations. When you do not meet expectations, there is often a rush to sell-off the stock by those only interested in short term gains and losses (hedge funds, day traders, etc.) to minimize their loss before the other short term investors can sell off theirs. Remaining shareholders and corporate boards of directors do not like their stock going south and this can lead to management change no matter how profitable the company had been the previous year.
2. The article does not credit signing Maddie Ziegler with the turnaround. In fact, the turnaround occurred beginning in 2017 when the new management took over and began expanding their target demographic to include millennials. The article states the stock reached an all time high in May 2018 based on record sales. That would have been the sales for first quarter 2018 which occurred prior to any advertisement using Maddie Ziegler had even appeared.
3. The article then states they have started a new round of ads using Maddie, actress Ellie Fanning, and some rapper named A$AP Ferg (never heard of him but I assume someone has) to further their appeal to millennials. The new campaign thus came after the turnaround and is not centered solely on Maddie.
4. Equally important to the marketing issues was the buyback of stock by Tiffany's. This puts the current management in charge of a much larger percentage of Tiffany stock and thus insulates them from the aforementioned turbulence with stock prices every time they have a disappointing quarter.
None of this is meant to minimize Maddie's accomplishment in getting signed for this campaign. It is a high profile position for a upper echelon retailer and bodes well for her future - not to mention getting some quality loaners for red carpet events.  But let's not get carried away by making it seem as though Maddie pulled Tiffany's out of ruin when that simply is not the case. No Maddie didn't do it on her own but she is mentioned in many articles as helping bring in the Millennial customer. money.cnn.com/2018/06/19/news/companies/tiffany-millennial-marketing/index.html |
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 27, 2019 11:17:41 GMT -5
Perhaps we should post this every day of the Autumn Chilly Breezes .. If I had that waiting for me every night when I got home there wouldn't be any need to turn the heat up. 😎 |
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 27, 2019 11:19:02 GMT -5
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Post by Pin the Tail on Aug 27, 2019 11:24:02 GMT -5
Perhaps we should post this every day of the Autumn Chilly Breezes .. If I had that waiting for me every night when I got home there wouldn't be any need to turn the heat up. 😎 Too bad for you. You'll have to get her away from her daddy first. |
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 27, 2019 11:24:33 GMT -5
Richard, I'm afraid in your enthusiasm you have misrepresented the article somewhat:
1. The article does not state that Tiffany's was losing money. They were not. What it states is that they had declining sales for two years in a row. On Wall Street, this can be a problem in making stock prices take a dive since prices are set by expectations and meeting those expectations. When you do not meet expectations, there is often a rush to sell-off the stock by those only interested in short term gains and losses (hedge funds, day traders, etc.) to minimize their loss before the other short term investors can sell off theirs. Remaining shareholders and corporate boards of directors do not like their stock going south and this can lead to management change no matter how profitable the company had been the previous year.
2. The article does not credit signing Maddie Ziegler with the turnaround. In fact, the turnaround occurred beginning in 2017 when the new management took over and began expanding their target demographic to include millennials. The article states the stock reached an all time high in May 2018 based on record sales. That would have been the sales for first quarter 2018 which occurred prior to any advertisement using Maddie Ziegler had even appeared.
3. The article then states they have started a new round of ads using Maddie, actress Ellie Fanning, and some rapper named A$AP Ferg (never heard of him but I assume someone has) to further their appeal to millennials. The new campaign thus came after the turnaround and is not centered solely on Maddie.
4. Equally important to the marketing issues was the buyback of stock by Tiffany's. This puts the current management in charge of a much larger percentage of Tiffany stock and thus insulates them from the aforementioned turbulence with stock prices every time they have a disappointing quarter.
None of this is meant to minimize Maddie's accomplishment in getting signed for this campaign. It is a high profile position for a upper echelon retailer and bodes well for her future - not to mention getting some quality loaners for red carpet events. But let's not get carried away by making it seem as though Maddie pulled Tiffany's out of ruin when that simply is not the case. "Richard, I'm afraid in your enthusiasm you have misrepresented the article somewhat:" When making such an accusation, one should take care not to also be guilty of misrepresentation. You said, "The article states the stock reached an all time high in May 2018 based on record sales. That would have been the sales for first quarter 2018 which occurred prior to any advertisement using Maddie Ziegler had even appeared." Tiffany & Co produced the video below and posted it on their official YouTube channel in March 2018 (first quarter). "Published on Mar 23, 2018 Everything Tiffany stands for—creativity, love and strength—is embodied by Tiffany T. Some of our favorite iconoclasts wear the collection and share what it means to them." Notwithstanding the fashion expertise of a certain poster, do you suppose that celebrities like Elle Fanning, Zendaya and others were hired by Tiffany because of their cheap rates? This video was posted by the Getty Images TV YouTube channel, recorded at the Tiffany "Paper Flowers" launch event in Manhattan during the first week of May 2018. Lastly, when Maddie Ziegler arrived at the event, these photographers seemed to have been impressed with her, in spite of her standing as a "cheap dancer". I think the misrepresentation is on your part. I never said anything derogatory about Maddie or Ellie and I never mentioned Zendaya at all. In fact I made it pretty clear that their siging Maddie boded well for her career - they would not have signed her if they did not think it helped. Nor did I ever call Maddie a "cheap dancer." I'm a fan of hers and I think she is a great dancer so I am a bit mystified at your reaction. All I did was point out an obvious error in presentation of the article.
As for the rest, everything I stated comes directly or indirectly from the article itself. The article clearly states the turnaround occurred by the May 2018 reporting of earnings (which would have been 1st quarter 2018 - Jan through March) and the campaign with Maddie began in April 2018. I have no idea how that campaign went - I assume it went well since she is still working for them as far as I know. What I made clear, if you bothered to read what I actually wrote and used logic rather than unfettered emotion, was that Maddie's campaign did not turn Tiffany's around. It may have added to their success, but the turnaround had already happened.
In the future, I suggest a course in reading comprehension before any other temper tantrums
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Post by Pin the Tail on Aug 27, 2019 11:29:06 GMT -5
In the future, I suggest a course in reading comprehension before any other temper tantrums You first. The second part of my post (the part that begins "Notwithstanding the fashion expertise of a certain poster") is a reply to the "cheap" comment made by a different poster. |
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Post by richard on Aug 27, 2019 11:29:59 GMT -5
Yes Jackie's OTT fans can't stand Maddie and her friends that have made so many achievements. So they try to down them at every turn but their achievements keep getting in their way. While the ones they post have very few and small achievements
like just posting a picture that is average or a little above and acting like they are a supermodel.
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Post by cer on Aug 27, 2019 11:47:06 GMT -5
Yes Jackie's OTT fans can't stand Maddie and her friends that have made so many achievements. So they try to down them at every turn but their achievements keep getting in their way. While the ones they post have very few and small achievements like just posting a picture that is average or a little above and acting like they are a supermodel. I generally agree with most things you said in this post. However, I do believe that performers like Emily Bear have a lot of upside, particularly, if she continues to pursue film composing. There is also no doubt that there is a lot of envy towards these other performers like Maddie among some of Jackie's OTT fans! |
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 27, 2019 11:52:14 GMT -5
In the future, I suggest a course in reading comprehension before any other temper tantrums You first. The second part of my post (the part that begins "Notwithstanding the fashion expertise of a certain poster") is a reply to the "cheap" comment made by a different poster. That's the point - your entire response to me never addressed anything I wrote. You used veiled references to Beachguy's putdown of Maddie (which I never endorsed) followed by questioning why I thought Tiffany's would hire someone who didn't help them when I never said anything about whether signing Maddie was a good or bad move. You then posted a few videos that also had nothing to do with what I had written. If I said something erroneous in my post, I would be more than happy to retract it, but I have not seen the evidence of that yet and none seems forthcoming. |
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Post by Socal Fan on Aug 27, 2019 12:06:13 GMT -5
Well, you could shoot yourself in the ass, that's what. This story should really be made into a movie or TV special called "How To Be Your Own Worst Enemy" or something like that. Focussing on the thought process behind shoving the gay and transgender agenda down the throats of her conservative fan base I've been saying this for a long time now that Jackie would be better off just keeping her mouth shut on these controversial issues and we all can see the end results of her not doing that. Jackie's career is alive and well - she has as many concerts this season as in previous years. Record sales are down but that has always been an insignificant source of income for her. I don't think her career slowing down has anything to do with transgender issues or singing for Trump. I don't think her career would be any better without transgender or Trump. It is simply the natural process whereby the public appeal of child prodigy declines as the child prodigy is no longer a child prodigy. The same thing happened or will happen to Connie Talbot, Amira and Angelina Jordan. Adult success requires building a new career as an adult. And building any career in showbiz is always a log shot - e.g. Shirley Temple, Macaulay Culkin, Gary Coleman etc. As I have posted before, Jackie's career longevity has exceeded my expectations. Her continued success suggests that she may be able to build an new adult career. Ironically, she has the advantage of being in the CC genre, where songwriting and personality are less important factors. |
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 27, 2019 12:07:02 GMT -5
Yes Jackie's OTT fans can't stand Maddie and her friends that have made so many achievements. So they try to down them at every turn but their achievements keep getting in their way. While the ones they post have very few and small achievements like just posting a picture that is average or a little above and acting like they are a supermodel.
Jackie's OTT fans cannot accept that other young women have more successful entertainment careers than their "chosen one." Those young women are accursed. If they are more successful and younger than Jackie, they are doubly accursed. If they are more successful, younger and come from AGT, they are triply accursed. Of course, if they are more successful, younger, came from AGT and actually won AGT [Grace and Darci Lynn], they are manifestations of hell itself. |
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Post by Pin the Tail on Aug 27, 2019 12:10:36 GMT -5
"Richard, I'm afraid in your enthusiasm you have misrepresented the article somewhat:" When making such an accusation, one should take care not to also be guilty of misrepresentation. You said, "The article states the stock reached an all time high in May 2018 based on record sales. That would have been the sales for first quarter 2018 which occurred prior to any advertisement using Maddie Ziegler had even appeared." Tiffany & Co produced the video below and posted it on their official YouTube channel in March 2018 (first quarter). "Published on Mar 23, 2018 Everything Tiffany stands for—creativity, love and strength—is embodied by Tiffany T. Some of our favorite iconoclasts wear the collection and share what it means to them." Notwithstanding the fashion expertise of a certain poster, do you suppose that celebrities like Elle Fanning, Zendaya and others were hired by Tiffany because of their cheap rates? This video was posted by the Getty Images TV YouTube channel, recorded at the Tiffany "Paper Flowers" launch event in Manhattan during the first week of May 2018. Lastly, when Maddie Ziegler arrived at the event, these photographers seemed to have been impressed with her, in spite of her standing as a "cheap dancer". I think the misrepresentation is on your part. I never said anything derogatory about Maddie or Ellie and I never mentioned Zendaya at all. In fact I made it pretty clear that their siging Maddie boded well for her career - they would not have signed her if they did not think it helped. Nor did I ever call Maddie a "cheap dancer." I'm a fan of hers and I think she is a great dancer so I am a bit mystified at your reaction. All I did was point out an obvious error in presentation of the article.
As for the rest, everything I stated comes directly or indirectly from the article itself. The article clearly states the turnaround occurred by the May 2018 reporting of earnings (which would have been 1st quarter 2018 - Jan through March) and the campaign with Maddie began in April 2018. I have no idea how that campaign went - I assume it went well since she is still working for them as far as I know. What I made clear, if you bothered to read what I actually wrote and used logic rather than unfettered emotion, was that Maddie's campaign did not turn Tiffany's around. It may have added to their success, but the turnaround had already happened.
In the future, I suggest a course in reading comprehension before any other temper tantrums
In your earlier post, you stated, "That would have been the sales for first quarter 2018 which occurred prior to any advertisement using Maddie Ziegler had even appeared." Contrary to what you wrote in your post above, that statement does not come (directly nor indirectly) from the article that Richard linked in his post. You wrote that statement yourself, and it is incorrect. As I showed, the first ad video with Maddie Ziegler was posted by Tiffany in March 2018 (first quarter). A person with integrity would have admitted his error and moved on. Instead, you chose to accuse me of a temper tantrum. What in my post gave you the false impression that I was having a temper tantrum? I simply (and calmly) provided facts and the videos links to support them. You also said that I need a course in reading comprehension. Yet you were unable to recognize that the second part of my post was in response to the person who said Tiffany's hiring decision was based on a "cheap" rate. That was clear from the context of other recent posts in this thread, made by multiple people. BTW, it's "Elle" Fanning - not "Ellie". |
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Post by richard on Aug 27, 2019 12:16:18 GMT -5
Jackie's OTT fans cannot accept that other young women have more successful entertainment careers than their "chosen one." Those young women are accursed. If they are more successful and younger than Jackie, they are doubly accursed. If they are more successful, younger and come from AGT, they are triply accursed. Of course, if they are more successful, younger, came from AGT and actually won AGT [Grace and Darci Lynn], they are manifestations of hell itself. Maybe they can update us again when they will fade away. I believe they gave them one or two years after AGT. I said along time ago that nobody is assured of a long career. But the ones we see making it now if their careers fade away nobody can say they didn't try their best to make it work. With Jackie you can not say that because she put the least into her career as she could. |
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But let's not get carried away by making it seem as though Maddie pulled Tiffany's out of ruin when that simply is not the case.
