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Post by 1 Guest on Jul 4, 2024 14:09:00 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if she was told to do what she used to do. She didn't listen, she's doing what she wants to do. She's doing at 24 what she wanted to do at 12 and that is what matters. Well she certainly wouldn't have made it as a pop singer or song writer at 12 years old.
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Post by colt46 on Jul 4, 2024 14:15:37 GMT -5
That’s right Jackie is doing what she wants to now and that’s the bottom line!
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Post by Disappointed on Jul 4, 2024 14:27:53 GMT -5
Imagine being told to keep doing what you used to do even though you've said you want to do something different. Yeah, kind of like millions and millions of people who are told they have to go back to their crappy jobs every day to make a living, even though they said they would like to lay on the beach. The nerve!
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Post by richard on Jul 4, 2024 14:32:56 GMT -5
She's doing at 24 what she wanted to do at 12 and that is what matters. Well she certainly wouldn't have made it as a pop singer or song writer at 12 years old. That is something we will never know because Mike and Lisa put a stop to Jackie's youtube channel as soon as she came off AGT. What if she kept that channel and sang the songs she wrote back then. Lisa said Jackie wrote a lot of songs. Tate McRae put songs that she wrote on her dancing channel and probably the only ones that liked them were the kids on her channel. But as time went on she wrote better and all those kids that liked her songs a few years back grew up with her and they started to push her music forward.
No Jackie's team had her play and act like the (as someone said here) granddaughter they wanted not the granddaughter they have.
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Post by colt46 on Jul 4, 2024 14:35:26 GMT -5
Jackie is to old to play the granddaughter that grandparents wanted back in the day!
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Post by 1 Guest on Jul 4, 2024 14:40:09 GMT -5
Well she certainly wouldn't have made it as a pop singer or song writer at 12 years old. That is something we will never know because Mike and Lisa put a stop to Jackie's youtube channel as soon as she came off AGT. What if she kept that channel and sang the songs she wrote back then. Lisa said Jackie wrote a lot of songs. Tate McRae put songs that she wrote on her dancing channel and probably the only ones that liked them were the kids on her channel. But as time went on she wrote better and all those kids that liked her songs a few years back grew up with her and they started to push her music forward.
No Jackie's team had her play and act like the (as someone said here) granddaughter they wanted not the granddaughter they have.
Where are all of those songs that she wrote as a kid? She would have gone nowhere. She was too young. There have been loads of young kids on talent shows who can really sing, but most just disappear. She only made it as far as she did because of the music she was singing. Besides, she said that she didn't have a pop voice, probably because of the way her AGT coach taught her how so sing, and it stuck.
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Post by colt46 on Jul 4, 2024 15:47:03 GMT -5
Jackie may have written a lot of songs as a kid but later released they were not very good! Remember Elvis didn’t write any of his music but he picked good songs to sing from good song writers ✍️!
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Post by donkey on Jul 4, 2024 15:47:52 GMT -5
That is something we will never know because Mike and Lisa put a stop to Jackie's youtube channel as soon as she came off AGT. What if she kept that channel and sang the songs she wrote back then. Lisa said Jackie wrote a lot of songs. Tate McRae put songs that she wrote on her dancing channel and probably the only ones that liked them were the kids on her channel. But as time went on she wrote better and all those kids that liked her songs a few years back grew up with her and they started to push her music forward.
No Jackie's team had her play and act like the (as someone said here) granddaughter they wanted not the granddaughter they have.
Where are all of those songs that she wrote as a kid? She would have gone nowhere. She was too young. There have been loads of young kids on talent shows who can really sing, but most just disappear. She only made it as far as she did because of the music she was singing. Besides, she said that she didn't have a pop voice, probably because of the way her AGT coach taught her how so sing, and it stuck. Any songs she would have written as a kid would likely not be relevant or interesting to her today as an adult. Imagine anything you wrote or thought about as a 10-15 year old. You think you would still be into it or be able to relate to it, or want to record and release it as a 24 year old? Not likely. And her writing skills and vocabulary would have increased hugely since she was a kid as well, in addition to her maturity level, interests and focus.
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Post by amg1977 on Jul 4, 2024 16:00:44 GMT -5
Apples and oranges. Technology is different than an individual's skill set/capabilities in a highly competitive and cutt throat industry. Jackie personality, charisma, singing ability, and age (child vs adult) all led to a singing career that has for the most part run its course. There appears to be little to no market for her for a reinvented career in a new genre. No harm in giving it a go of course, but she still wants to have people come to her shows and she still wants to make what money she can. You don't just toss that out for a long shot that likely will never pay off. If you do that, and the new, unlikely successful new career doesn't pan out, you may very well not have your old fan base willing to come back to you. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
You can't possibly know at this early stage whether there is a market or not. As I have said before, she is starting over from scratch so it would take a minimum of 2-3 years hard work to get noticed without some viral thing happening. What I don't get is that you are acting as though the status quo is even an option. The fact is that CC is all but dead in this country and mostly dead in Europe. So, unless Jackie plans on moving to Southeast Asia, I don't see much of relevance in beating the proverbial dead horse. They milked that cow dry a few years ago. Sure you could continue playing to ever decreasing audiences of ever older people but where would she be five years from now? Do you expect her to sing to dementia patients in nursing homes? There simply will not be an audience for what she is selling.
And no, it is not apples and oranges comparing her to technology companies. I could have also compared her to food other companies and even other entertainers. For example, after talkies were introduced, actors who wanted only to stay in silent films didn't survive. You can't sell tickets when those who want to see you can't venture out the door and those who can venture out the door don't want to see you.
It would be one thing if Jackie was committed to CC as an art form regardless of its marketability. At that point, you struggle to get by however you can to express your vision. There's nothing wrong with doing something less financially viable because you love what you do. But I don't think Jackie cares that much for CC and probably would prefer to be a pop star - even with struggles.
That doesn't mean she has to jettison her fanbase. As I suggested, she should seek gigs as a supporting artist to get exposure to audiences who already like the style she has chosen. She then has a reason to not play the old material without offending people since it is a pop show. If Jackie wants a shot at a pop career, she needs to pay the dues. When Grace moved from teen pop to alt pop, she alternated between her own shows and opening for alt acts like Imagine Dragons and Florence and the Machine and also spots in festivals. Of course, that was easier since she did it early in her career and was able to secure opening spots with bigger acts. Jackie would have to aim lower but you have to start somewhere.
The reality is that if she stays put, she has no future. It would have been better to do this years ago but that just makes a move more imperative now. If Jackie had an audience primarily in their 40s, I'd say you might as well stick with it since you would be a legacy act by the time your audience aged out. But her primary appeal is to people past retirement age. That is just not a tenable demographic for someone in their 20s.
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Post by donkey on Jul 4, 2024 16:01:36 GMT -5
Well she certainly wouldn't have made it as a pop singer or song writer at 12 years old. That is something we will never know because Mike and Lisa put a stop to Jackie's youtube channel as soon as she came off AGT. What if she kept that channel and sang the songs she wrote back then. Lisa said Jackie wrote a lot of songs. Tate McRae put songs that she wrote on her dancing channel and probably the only ones that liked them were the kids on her channel. But as time went on she wrote better and all those kids that liked her songs a few years back grew up with her and they started to push her music forward.
No Jackie's team had her play and act like the (as someone said here) granddaughter they wanted not the granddaughter they have.
You never know for sure, but my money is on NO. She didn't have the outgoing or interesting personality, relatability, or pop star level vocal talent to make it in pop music as a teen...in my opinion. Her head voice, aka "opera or classical" voice is where she excelled...especially as a little kid, aka little girl with the big voice. Her chest voice, aka pop voice, was just okay...but didn't stand out in the crowd of great teen voices.
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Post by donkey on Jul 4, 2024 16:09:21 GMT -5
Apples and oranges. Technology is different than an individual's skill set/capabilities in a highly competitive and cutt throat industry. Jackie personality, charisma, singing ability, and age (child vs adult) all led to a singing career that has for the most part run its course. There appears to be little to no market for her for a reinvented career in a new genre. No harm in giving it a go of course, but she still wants to have people come to her shows and she still wants to make what money she can. You don't just toss that out for a long shot that likely will never pay off. If you do that, and the new, unlikely successful new career doesn't pan out, you may very well not have your old fan base willing to come back to you. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
You can't possibly know at this early stage whether there is a market or not. As I have said before, she is starting over from scratch so it would take a minimum of 2-3 years hard work to get noticed without some viral thing happening. What I don't get is that you are acting as though the status quo is even an option. The fact is that CC is all but dead in this country and mostly dead in Europe. So, unless Jackie plans on moving to Southeast Asia, I don't see much of relevance in beating the proverbial dead horse. They milked that cow dry a few years ago. Sure you could continue playing to ever decreasing audiences of ever older people but where would she be five years from now? Do you expect her to sing to dementia patients in nursing homes? There simply will not be an audience for what she is selling.
And no, it is not apples and oranges comparing her to technology companies. I could have also compared her to food other companies and even other entertainers. For example, after talkies were introduced, actors who wanted only to stay in silent films didn't survive. You can't sell tickets when those who want to see you can't venture out the door and those who can venture out the door don't want to see you.
It would be one thing if Jackie was committed to CC as an art form regardless of its marketability. At that point, you struggle to get by however you can to express your vision. There's nothing wrong with doing something less financially viable because you love what you do. But I don't think Jackie cares that much for CC and probably would prefer to be a pop star - even with struggles.
That doesn't mean she has to jettison her fanbase. As I suggested, she should seek gigs as a supporting artist to get exposure to audiences who already like the style she has chosen. She then has a reason to not play the old material without offending people since it is a pop show. If Jackie wants a shot at a pop career, she needs to pay the dues. When Grace moved from teen pop to alt pop, she alternated between her own shows and opening for alt acts like Imagine Dragons and Florence and the Machine and also spots in festivals. Of course, that was easier since she did it early in her career and was able to secure opening spots with bigger acts. Jackie would have to aim lower but you have to start somewhere.
The reality is that if she stays put, she has no future. It would have been better to do this years ago but that just makes a move more imperative now. If Jackie had an audience primarily in their 40s, I'd say you might as well stick with it since you would be a legacy act by the time your audience aged out. But her primary appear are to people past retirement age. That is just not a tenable demographic for someone in their 20s. The one thing I don't think you get is that Jackie is very proud of her career and all the songs that she had success with and the legendary singers she dueted with. She has shown zero interest in moving on past all of that in her concerts. Obviously she doesnt want to be seen as a kid anymore, but her catalog of material IS who she is and IS what her entire career, especially the most successful part, was built upon. Sure, she is getting to live her dream of writing, recording, and releasing some original music as an adult, but it's not really doing that well in the market place, and she seems to still lack confidence in singing it live to some degree. I think her song writing is more likely a footnote to her career, not a new chapter. I agree, her cc career is in its death throes, however, she can likely do a small handful of concerts/shows a year for years to come as she has been the last few years and make a living with it. Who knows, mabye some big opportunity will fall in her lap eventually...a one off...where she gets to be in a movie or gets to sing a duet with some legendary pop star...who knows. But to think Jackie is going become some kind of successful pop singer, while possible, is highly unlikely imo. She doesn't have the mind set or skill set for that. She would have to make some huge changes to make a serious run at that, and I haven't seen any signs of that from Jackie.
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Post by The Jackinator on Jul 4, 2024 16:10:16 GMT -5
Apples and oranges. Technology is different than an individual's skill set/capabilities in a highly competitive and cutt throat industry. Jackie personality, charisma, singing ability, and age (child vs adult) all led to a singing career that has for the most part run its course. There appears to be little to no market for her for a reinvented career in a new genre. No harm in giving it a go of course, but she still wants to have people come to her shows and she still wants to make what money she can. You don't just toss that out for a long shot that likely will never pay off. If you do that, and the new, unlikely successful new career doesn't pan out, you may very well not have your old fan base willing to come back to you. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
You can't possibly know at this early stage whether there is a market or not. As I have said before, she is starting over from scratch so it would take a minimum of 2-3 years hard work to get noticed without some viral thing happening. What I don't get is that you are acting as though the status quo is even an option. The fact is that CC is all but dead in this country and mostly dead in Europe. So, unless Jackie plans on moving to Southeast Asia, I don't see much of relevance in beating the proverbial dead horse. They milked that cow dry a few years ago. Sure you could continue playing to ever decreasing audiences of ever older people but where would she be five years from now? Do you expect her to sing to dementia patients in nursing homes? There simply will not be an audience for what she is selling.
And no, it is not apples and oranges comparing her to technology companies. I could have also compared her to food other companies and even other entertainers. For example, after talkies were introduced, actors who wanted only to stay in silent films didn't survive. You can't sell tickets when those who want to see you can't venture out the door and those who can venture out the door don't want to see you.
It would be one thing if Jackie was committed to CC as an art form regardless of its marketability. At that point, you struggle to get by however you can to express your vision. There's nothing wrong with doing something less financially viable because you love what you do. But I don't think Jackie cares that much for CC and probably would prefer to be a pop star - even with struggles.
That doesn't mean she has to jettison her fanbase. As I suggested, she should seek gigs as a supporting artist to get exposure to audiences who already like the style she has chosen. She then has a reason to not play the old material without offending people since it is a pop show. If Jackie wants a shot at a pop career, she needs to pay the dues. When Grace moved from teen pop to alt pop, she alternated between her own shows and opening for alt acts like Imagine Dragons and Florence and the Machine and also spots in festivals. Of course, that was easier since she did it early in her career and was able to secure opening spots with bigger acts. Jackie would have to aim lower but you have to start somewhere.
The reality is that if she stays put, she has no future. It would have been better to do this years ago but that just makes a move more imperative now. If Jackie had an audience primarily in their 40s, I'd say you might as well stick with it since you would be a legacy act by the time your audience aged out. But her primary appear are to people past retirement age. That is just not a tenable demographic for someone in their 20s. The clock is ticking and fast. She should have come out with a full alt-pop album instead of Solla and promoted her new direction with a lot of fanfare. What she is now is a ship going nowhere and it will take another 2-3 years to correct the direction. She should already be a full-blown pop artist at this point.
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Post by amg1977 on Jul 4, 2024 16:12:18 GMT -5
It's not Jackie's singing but her stage presence.
A singer like Taylor Swift is going to get someone like Sabrina Carpenter for an opening act. Not someone that is just going to hug the mic and sing.
I'm not talking about opening for Taylor Swift or some big pop star. I'm speaking of alt-pop shows where the audience is not there to bask in celebrity auras. This could be an opening for singer-songwriters who can draw 500 people to a smaller hall. Those into that sort of music are very insular and there are internet communities that can have a good of word of mouth effect. If you get a good buzz, you can then open for someone bigger. It tales a few years to build a reputation as an act people want to see but you will start to see streaming increases pretty quickly.
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Post by amg1977 on Jul 4, 2024 16:25:52 GMT -5
The one thing I don't think you get is that Jackie is very proud of her career and all the songs that she had success with and the legendary singers she dueted with. She has shown zero interest in moving on past all of that in her concerts. Obviously she doesnt want to be seen as a kid anymore, but her catalog of material IS who she is and IS what her entire career, especially the most successful part, was build upon. Sure, she is getting to live her dream of writing, recording, and releasing some original music as an adult, but it's not really doing that well in the market place, and she seems to still lack confidence in singing it live to some degree. I think her song writing is more likely a footnote to her career, not a new chapter. It's just the way it is. You may want to convince yourself of that but is it really true? Of course, Jackie is going to say she loves her old songs since she is in transition. But I take that talk as seriously as I did Taylor Swift saying she would never leave country. In both cases, you can add "... until something I like better becomes viable."
In her entire teen or adult life, have you ever seen Jackie listening to CC type music in her car? When she talks about other artists she likes, who does she name? Unless I missed something, they are all pop artists. Now, I would not go so far as to say she "hates" her CC repertoire or even dislikes it, but I think over time she began to resent it. It made her look "uncool" to her peers as a teenager and is a bit of an albatross to doing the music she really likes. Taylor moving from country to pop is a jump but a manageable one. Moving from former CC golden child to an alt pop star is a more difficult transition.
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Post by The Jackinator on Jul 4, 2024 16:27:29 GMT -5
You can't possibly know at this early stage whether there is a market or not. As I have said before, she is starting over from scratch so it would take a minimum of 2-3 years hard work to get noticed without some viral thing happening. What I don't get is that you are acting as though the status quo is even an option. The fact is that CC is all but dead in this country and mostly dead in Europe. So, unless Jackie plans on moving to Southeast Asia, I don't see much of relevance in beating the proverbial dead horse. They milked that cow dry a few years ago. Sure you could continue playing to ever decreasing audiences of ever older people but where would she be five years from now? Do you expect her to sing to dementia patients in nursing homes? There simply will not be an audience for what she is selling.
And no, it is not apples and oranges comparing her to technology companies. I could have also compared her to food other companies and even other entertainers. For example, after talkies were introduced, actors who wanted only to stay in silent films didn't survive. You can't sell tickets when those who want to see you can't venture out the door and those who can venture out the door don't want to see you.
It would be one thing if Jackie was committed to CC as an art form regardless of its marketability. At that point, you struggle to get by however you can to express your vision. There's nothing wrong with doing something less financially viable because you love what you do. But I don't think Jackie cares that much for CC and probably would prefer to be a pop star - even with struggles.
That doesn't mean she has to jettison her fanbase. As I suggested, she should seek gigs as a supporting artist to get exposure to audiences who already like the style she has chosen. She then has a reason to not play the old material without offending people since it is a pop show. If Jackie wants a shot at a pop career, she needs to pay the dues. When Grace moved from teen pop to alt pop, she alternated between her own shows and opening for alt acts like Imagine Dragons and Florence and the Machine and also spots in festivals. Of course, that was easier since she did it early in her career and was able to secure opening spots with bigger acts. Jackie would have to aim lower but you have to start somewhere.
The reality is that if she stays put, she has no future. It would have been better to do this years ago but that just makes a move more imperative now. If Jackie had an audience primarily in their 40s, I'd say you might as well stick with it since you would be a legacy act by the time your audience aged out. But her primary appear are to people past retirement age. That is just not a tenable demographic for someone in their 20s. The one thing I don't think you get is that Jackie is very proud of her career and all the songs that she had success with and the legendary singers she dueted with. She has shown zero interest in moving on past all of that in her concerts. Obviously she doesnt want to be seen as a kid anymore, but her catalog of material IS who she is and IS what her entire career, especially the most successful part, was built upon. Sure, she is getting to live her dream of writing, recording, and releasing some original music as an adult, but it's not really doing that well in the market place, and she seems to still lack confidence in singing it live to some degree. I think her song writing is more likely a footnote to her career, not a new chapter. I agree, her cc career is in its death throes, however, she can likely do a small handful of concerts/shows a year for years to come as she has been the last few years and make a living with it. Who knows, mabye some big opportunity will fall in her lap eventually...a one off...where she gets to be in a movie or gets to sing a duet with some legendary pop star...who knows. But to think Jackie is going become some kind of successful pop singer, while possible, is highly unlikely imo. She doesn't have the mind set or skill set for that. She would have to make some huge changes to make a serious run at that, and I haven't seen any signs of that from Jackie. Being proud of one's career doesn't put fannies in the seats. We don't see a line of people waiting for Jackie to sing OMBC, Somewhere and Music of the Night for umpteenth time. If she doesn't want to be seen as a kid, it's time to let that music go and move on. Part of the reason her new music is not doing well is because she is trying to both cling to the past and attempting to reinvent herself. Jackie can gain confidence in her new material the same way anyone gains confidence: practice. You're right, her chances of becoming a pop star are very low, but her chances of becoming a total has-been is 100% if she stays on the current course.
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