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Post by Disappointed on Aug 1, 2024 19:12:35 GMT -5
Seems even she doesn't have access to much of a bank account. Living in a modest condo with daddy that has been indicated here prior as rented, not owned. But even owned, would be worth only around $300k. Would you like me to post the address and the stated value of the actual condo, Simsy, to disprove your gaslighting? No? Thought not.
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Post by richard on Aug 1, 2024 19:40:23 GMT -5
Would you like me to post the address and the stated value of the actual condo, Simsy, to disprove your gaslighting? No? Thought not. As soon as Maddie turned 18 she moved out and bought this Condo this is the actual Condo she bought and sold it for $955,000 plus she had a $630/month HOA fee.
After she sold it she bought her a house for $2,555,000
Awhile back Kenzie said Maddie was also looking at apartments is New York for both of them to use when in NYC. I don't know if she ever bought one. But she does seem to spend a lot of time in NYC, but unlike Jackie she does have several friends that live there. I don't know what is in NYC but Olivia Rodrigo move there.
Seems like every one of the younger so called moppets as Smims use to call them are doing good and had no problem going from young celebrity to adult celebrity. I don't blame Jackie except for the fact that she should have ditched daddy and mom management as soon as she turned 18 and moved to someplace like LA where there is a lot more work and people in the singing field that could have helped her.
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 1, 2024 20:58:59 GMT -5
I am well aware you may not be particularly quick when it comes to math, but this conversation has been had in this forum enough that you should have figured it out by now. Of course, you are likely being willfully ignorant, but just in case you are as stupid as the statement you made, let's go through it again.
Spotify, as with all streaming platforms, pays by making a pool based on their revenue for a set period and using a formula to calculate what percentage you make of that revenue. The income per stream could vary according to how many users their service has at a given time, how many are using the free ad-supported tier vs. the paid subscriber tier, and a few other minor factors. Yet, given their consistently large base of users, the payment has been remarkably consistent with the outcome hovering around $0.003 per stream as has been published on various occasions in Billboard. As a legal consideration, they have to make the point that it can vary, but barring the industry undergoing a remarkable reconfiguration over the next few years, this trend will continue.
In more general terms, Spotify has a contract with the major labels to pay a set percentage of the allotted payment to the label (that averages out to about $0.02 per stream) to artists, songwriters etc. Other labels pretty much fall in line with whatever the major labels decide. The current contract is given out as indicated in this article:
As you see, 16% is given to the artist and 16% of $0.02 is $0.0032 although it is usually rounded off to $0.003 in most articles. The caveats here are that the labels subtract any advance money they have given the artist and the remainder is held in escrow until the label's cut (64% or $0.0128 per stream) overcomes their expenses on the release and they begin making profit. However, since I was discussing future income from a back catalogue, that would not be an issue.
As for the doubling and tripling income, Spotify is among the lower paying streamers due to them having an ad supported tier that makes up the majority of listeners. Amazon also has a lower tier of those who are Prime subscribers and get a more limited access to songs vs paid subscribers who get access to complete catalogues. Apple, Tidal, and Deezer (the other main services) pay a higher rate as they are completely subscriber based. Spotify makes up 30%-50% of the streaming market depending upon the general area. It is dominant in Europe but less so in the US. So, given the location of an artist's fans can determine the exact percentage Spotify makes up of their streams. Unfortunately, they are the only service that is relatively transparent with statistics so we can only estimate. If an artist's listeners are in areas where Spotify is strongest, then doubling the income is a good approximation. If they are in an area where Spotify is weakest, then tripling would be the best approximation. Since Spotify is among the lower paying streamers, this is probably a slight underestimation of income.
Placing a monthly stream tally of 3,500,000 in a month and multiplying it by 0.003 gives $10,500 a month. The rest is just more math. As an added point, more recent estimates have the per stream average for Spotify going up. This may be due to the new agreement with labels coming into effect and also streaming growing well beyond its initial use by younger listeners. As the user base begins to include parents, they will be more likely to use the subscriber service that has a higher per stream average payout. However, this could be a momentary aberration so I went with the stats that have a long track record.
Now I know math is hard and your obsession requires you to respond somehow, but at least do some research apart from cherry picking quotes you don't understand. You could, for example, make the case that Jackie will never reach that status of x streams per month and then at least there would be a conversation. But denying things that everyone already knows by quoting a "cover your a$$" legal clarification is not much in the way of evidence.
Until you post a picture of Jackie's tax return with all of the applicable numbers, you're just some schmuck on the internet who's obsessed with trying to make himself sound important by regurgitating numbers and doing "math". My math skills are just fine, thank you. But if you don't have the actual facts to put in the equation, it's just a load of malarky. Even several big names have said they get nowhere near that .003 figure that is tossed around. You conveniently gloss over that with your caveat/back catalog comment but realistically only popular artists with popular songs make any significant money from older recordings. Look, here's another person on the internet who sounds like less of a schmuck and appears to know more than you do. I will cherry pick and highlight the appropriate details for you: "Spotify pays $.0037 for ad-supported streams and $.006 for “paid” subscription streams (premium streams) but that’s not just for the artist - that is for record labels that will distribute to artists, music writers, record producers, all those people agents and their own cut as investors on publishing the music and marketing costs. Usually the artist only gets something after all costs are paid. On average only 5% to 10% of that value goes directly to Artists after initial recording and marketing costs are ALL paid (more if the artist is also the songwriter or/and producer as also gets a cut from that). Around 85% of Spotify streams are ad-supported so for example (taking 85% of ad-supported streams into account): 1 million = $3 145 (from ad-supported streams) + $900 (from paid streams). That’s a total of $ 4 045 to pay to everyone and everything. The artist gets $202 to $404 from that. 10 million = the artist gets $2k to $4k100 million = the artist gets $20k to $40k 1 billion streams = the artist gets $200k to $400k If the Artist is also songwriter and producer will get more than that but let’s not forget that the record labels gets a big slice so even with those into account 10 million streams would give the artist from $6k to $12k on the best scenario (when the artist is also songwriter and producer). Bigger stars get more money as they have better contracts with record labels (some may gain slightly more but if they do it was not turned public). A-list Artists and legends like Madonna, U2, Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Justin Bieber or Drake (among others) have some of the best rates making 15% or even a bit over that (Madonna is the one that makes the most - 25% plus her cut as songwriter and producer from most of the songs as well) - but we are talking just around 5000 Artists at the max getting 15% or more in the whole world. New artists get the smaller amount as they have standard record deals give them usually just 5% and well known artist get more until 10% (as 2021 there were 11 million different artist at Spotify). Independent Artists with NO RECORD LABEL and that own all production and copyrights for the song will get ALL the money, so 1 million streams will give them around $4045 and 10 million about $40 450. These values are for streams coming from US and a few more countries that pay these kind of values. Most streams from the majority world countries ( Most South America, Africa, Asia and even some from Europe) pay less (sometimes 10 times less per stream). So where the streams are from also counts to get to the final number." www.quora.com/How-much-money-does-an-artist-make-from-Spotify-streams
LMAO!! My source is Billboard and actual recording artists. One of those is Greg Camp who had posted how he thought the labels took too much and verified the ARTIST received about $0.003 per stream. This has been verified by other artists. For example, T-Pain, in a post Sims copied months back, said he needed 315 streams to make $1. Get out a calculator and divide 1 by 315. Guess what you get: $0.003 per stream. On the other hand, your source is some clown on Quora who is not involved in the industry and is pulling stuff out of his a$$. Quora?!?!? That's about 15 ranks below Wikipedia. . Even worse, there are others who are actual recording artists in the same thread who came up with similar figures as mine. Even some guy who is a complete nobody with less than 2000 monthly listeners, no recording contract, and absolutely no leverage was doing much better than what you mentioned. The three major label conglomerates (Sony, UMG, Warners) run the music industry and set the contract standards. Independent artists have to negotiate with streaming platforms on their own and usually end up pretty much screwed. That is why any indie artist who has a change to sign with a label does so almost immediately.
Use your brain for a minute. If they were paying only what you claimed and the labels were making 64 of that amount, they would be belly up by now rather than making money hand over fist and paying executives exorbitant salaries. Like I said, math must be hard for you.
You are pretty much acting like an OTT who will cherry pick any source possible no matter how unreliable and run with it. You just play for the other team.
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Post by colt46 on Aug 1, 2024 21:08:46 GMT -5
Disappointed loves cherries 🍒!
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Post by donkey on Aug 1, 2024 21:29:09 GMT -5
You are pretty much acting like an OTT who will cherry pick any source possible no matter how unreliable and run with it. You just play for the other team. That's what happens when you have an agenda. It doesn't allow for objective analysis.
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Post by Disappointed on Aug 1, 2024 21:47:00 GMT -5
Until you post a picture of Jackie's tax return with all of the applicable numbers, you're just some schmuck on the internet who's obsessed with trying to make himself sound important by regurgitating numbers and doing "math". My math skills are just fine, thank you. But if you don't have the actual facts to put in the equation, it's just a load of malarky. Even several big names have said they get nowhere near that .003 figure that is tossed around. You conveniently gloss over that with your caveat/back catalog comment but realistically only popular artists with popular songs make any significant money from older recordings. Look, here's another person on the internet who sounds like less of a schmuck and appears to know more than you do. I will cherry pick and highlight the appropriate details for you: "Spotify pays $.0037 for ad-supported streams and $.006 for “paid” subscription streams (premium streams) but that’s not just for the artist - that is for record labels that will distribute to artists, music writers, record producers, all those people agents and their own cut as investors on publishing the music and marketing costs. Usually the artist only gets something after all costs are paid. On average only 5% to 10% of that value goes directly to Artists after initial recording and marketing costs are ALL paid (more if the artist is also the songwriter or/and producer as also gets a cut from that). Around 85% of Spotify streams are ad-supported so for example (taking 85% of ad-supported streams into account): 1 million = $3 145 (from ad-supported streams) + $900 (from paid streams). That’s a total of $ 4 045 to pay to everyone and everything. The artist gets $202 to $404 from that. 10 million = the artist gets $2k to $4k100 million = the artist gets $20k to $40k 1 billion streams = the artist gets $200k to $400k If the Artist is also songwriter and producer will get more than that but let’s not forget that the record labels gets a big slice so even with those into account 10 million streams would give the artist from $6k to $12k on the best scenario (when the artist is also songwriter and producer). Bigger stars get more money as they have better contracts with record labels (some may gain slightly more but if they do it was not turned public). A-list Artists and legends like Madonna, U2, Rolling Stones, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Justin Bieber or Drake (among others) have some of the best rates making 15% or even a bit over that (Madonna is the one that makes the most - 25% plus her cut as songwriter and producer from most of the songs as well) - but we are talking just around 5000 Artists at the max getting 15% or more in the whole world. New artists get the smaller amount as they have standard record deals give them usually just 5% and well known artist get more until 10% (as 2021 there were 11 million different artist at Spotify). Independent Artists with NO RECORD LABEL and that own all production and copyrights for the song will get ALL the money, so 1 million streams will give them around $4045 and 10 million about $40 450. These values are for streams coming from US and a few more countries that pay these kind of values. Most streams from the majority world countries ( Most South America, Africa, Asia and even some from Europe) pay less (sometimes 10 times less per stream). So where the streams are from also counts to get to the final number." www.quora.com/How-much-money-does-an-artist-make-from-Spotify-streams
LMAO!! My source is Billboard and actual recording artists. One of those is Greg Camp who had posted how he thought the labels took too much and verified the ARTIST received about $0.003 per stream. This has been verified by other artists. For example, T-Pain, in a post Sims copied months back, said he needed 315 streams to make $1. Get out a calculator and divide 1 by 315. Guess what you get: $0.003 per stream. On the other hand, your source is some clown on Quora who is not involved in the industry and is pulling stuff out of his a$$. Quora?!?!? That's about 15 ranks below Wikipedia. . Even worse, there are others who are actual recording artists in the same thread who came up with similar figures as mine. Even some guy who is a complete nobody with less than 2000 monthly listeners, no recording contract, and absolutely no leverage was doing much better than what you mentioned. The three major label conglomerates (Sony, UMG, Warners) run the music industry and set the contract standards. Independent artists have to negotiate with streaming platforms on their own and usually end up pretty much screwed. That is why any indie artist who has a change to sign with a label does so almost immediately.
Use your brain for a minute. If they were paying only what you claimed and the labels were making 64 of that amount, they would be belly up by now rather than making money hand over fist and paying executives exorbitant salaries. Like I said, math must be hard for you.
You are pretty much acting like an OTT who will cherry pick any source possible no matter how unreliable and run with it. You just play for the other team. It's pretty obvious to me that YOU are the one pulling stuff out of his a$$. I'll believe the guy on Quora, thanks, I can tell from his analysis that he has delved into more of the subject than you have. And he's not some old coot who fell in love with a 10 year old girl and is still in love with her, and has an agenda to "prove" what a great living she is making and will continue to make by releasing some flunky generic album every few years. If streaming paid that well like you claim, all these artists wouldn't be complaining about the low and unfair pay. You pretend to know all the facts but you know nothing about anyone's situation and contracts. YOU cherry pick the posts from the "average" artist who gets around .003 which SOME may be making and that may be average, but your little girlfriend is FAR below the average artist. So as I said, you show us her tax return and then I will say you were right. Otherwise, you are just making stuff up with no facts about what her earnings are. And you are simply wasting my time.
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Post by Disappointed on Aug 1, 2024 21:48:17 GMT -5
You are pretty much acting like an OTT who will cherry pick any source possible no matter how unreliable and run with it. You just play for the other team. That's what happens when you have an agenda. It doesn't allow for objective analysis. Well, don't be too hard on yourself and the other OTTs. Eventually you will fall out of love with Jackie and your agenda will be cured.
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Post by donkey on Aug 1, 2024 22:53:14 GMT -5
That's what happens when you have an agenda. It doesn't allow for objective analysis. Well, don't be too hard on yourself and the other OTTs. Eventually you will fall out of love with Jackie and your agenda will be cured. We are going to need to work your projection next Disappointed. LoL
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 2, 2024 0:21:24 GMT -5
It's pretty obvious to me that YOU are the one pulling stuff out of his a$$. I'll believe the guy on Quora, thanks, I can tell from his analysis that he has delved into more of the subject than you have. And he's not some old coot who fell in love with a 10 year old girl and is still in love with her, and has an agenda to "prove" what a great living she is making and will continue to make by releasing some flunky generic album every few years. I actually gave legitimate sources in the industry. Billboard and other industry magazines, recording artists, etc. Even on the Quora page you quoted, there were over half a dozen answers and all but one agreed with me - including a few people who worked in the industry and gave their links, but you chose to cite the one clown who has no actual contact with the industry and is obviously making sh!t up. The only reason you chose him was because it fit your narrative. It is very much like OTT behavior but I can't say it's OTT - perhaps we can call you UTB (under the bottom).
I haven't fallen in love with a 10 year old as I barely knew she existed during her AGT run. I became interested in her some years later as I have mentioned before from a PBS special I ran across while flipping channels and later seeing her when I was volunteering at Longwood Gardens. Nor have I said she is making a great living. In fact, the very point I have made repeatedly is that certain goals will need to be met for her to make a decent living and had she continued to go the path she had been her career would be pretty much over. Of course, in your UTB fashion, you hear someone say she has a possibility of having a productive career and you interpret it as saying she it making a great living and being in love with her. It is very much like an OTT who hears any mere mention of Jackie having a downturn in her career as proving they hate her. It's just the opposite direction.
If streaming paid that well like you claim, all these artists wouldn't be complaining about the low and unfair pay. You pretend to know all the facts but you know nothing about anyone's situation and contracts. YOU cherry pick the posts from the "average" artist who gets around .003 which SOME may be making and that may be average, but your little girlfriend is FAR below the average artist. So as I said, you show us her tax return and then I will say you were right. Otherwise, you are just making stuff up with no facts about what her earnings are. And you are simply wasting my time.
Artists always complain they are not paid enough. Overpaid writers producing crap shows no one watches and actors making millions of dollars for a movie have routinely complained about their cuts. Recording artists complained before streaming and they still complain today. Their one legitimate complaint is that the labels are making a windfall since they no loner have to produce hard copies (CDs, vinyl, etc.) but the label's percentage of revenue has remained the same. In the music industry in particular, there is also the problem that recording artists will get an advance on earnings from the label and not handle their money properly blowing it on things like cars, jewelry, and other items used to flex on social media. Then when the label takes the advance out of their cut of the money they show the "surprised pikachu face" and cry foul. This is definitely the case with rappers.
I have not really concerned myself with what some unsigned independent artist will get from streaming platforms. The only time this becomes interesting is when Spotify (as has been alleged in some cases) manage their playlists in such a way as to guarantee a certain number of prized spots to independent artists they won't have to pay as much. But those signed to industry labels are pretty much set to the contracts decided by the three big conglomerates. For them, the payouts are pretty consistent as has been born out over the last five years in many studies by industry publications. I didn't make up the $0.003 per stream figure for artists signed to labels - it is stated from many sources.
As has been mentioned by both of us, it can vary according to the number of Spotify users, the type of account, etc. However, since I was discussing artists with hundreds of thousands of streams per month, the sheer volume evens out the contingencies. Also go back to my original post and note that I said she could make a living if she got 500K streams from Spotify a month. I am pretty sure she is not getting close to that now. Hence, that is an objective goal that could be used to determine whether or not her career would be viable. At no point did I ever say she is doing that now nor have I said I am sure she will accomplish it. It would take a lot of hard work and determination on her part and perhaps some humility to be willing to start from the bottom and work her way back. I have been saying the same thing about Jackie's career since I joined this forum. The only difference is that in the last year she seemed to at least show some signs of wanting to do something different. It would be hypocritical for me to criticize her now that she is doing some of the things I said she needed to do.
Unlike some others around these parts, I am neither going to defend nor attack her unreasonably. I don't know what interactions have made you so bitter (or "disappointed") but I have never been that dependent upon entertainers to allow their successes or failures to determine my mental state. I happen to think she is a very talented singer (such things are subjective but it appears that way to me) and I always root for talented people to make the most of their talents. I don't know Jackie, Grace, Billie, or anyone else I might discuss here but, from my former career, I am always interested in how artists market themselves in a rapidly changing landscape.
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 2, 2024 1:16:33 GMT -5
Grace Vanderwaal just did a photoshoot for fashion magazine L'Beaute. Here is a "Behind the Scenes" video:
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 2, 2024 18:36:00 GMT -5
The aforementioned photoshoot for Grace in fashion magazine L'Beaute is apparently in the next issue and she's the "covergirl":
Some photos appeared in the L'Beaute's IG stories:
It appears her slot in Megalopolis is already paying dividends.
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Post by colt46 on Aug 2, 2024 19:15:33 GMT -5
Nice pics of Grace!
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Post by amg1977 on Aug 2, 2024 19:44:03 GMT -5
The Spanish language version of the magazine is apparently already available (it is centered in Mexico but also has an office in Los Angeles) and the full shoot is on their website.
I put the accompanying interview through Google translate (always an adventure but no weird translations this time):
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Post by colt46 on Aug 2, 2024 19:55:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the translation!
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Post by colt46 on Aug 2, 2024 19:58:09 GMT -5
Grace is a good songwriter that her generation can relate to, I am confident she will be successful in the future!
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